The Drinking Club

First of all, AA is *not* Christian. It is pagan. You can choose any Higher Power (god) you wish, and then you pray to it to remove your “cravings”. The First Commandment: You shall have no other gods before me.  New AA members are often encouraged to choose inanimate objects or even the group itself (“Group Of Drunks”) as their HP.  AA “theology” is incompatible with Christianity, even if many meetings take place in church basements, and even though some members insist it’s Christian.

Secondly, AA is a cult. Of what? Well as with most cults, just look at what they say — it’s the opposite of what they do. For example, a Satanic cult will praise The Father of Light in public, but then exalt Satan (Lucifer) in secret ceremonies.  An apocalyptic cult will eschew lust (in preparation for “The End of Times”) and then marry off teenagers to old men.  AA will renounce drinking and then its members will go out and get plastered.

That’s right: AA is a drinking club.

What???

Well just look at the published literature: AA does not reduce drinking over no treatment at all, and actually exacerbates it in young people.

But AA is supposed to prevent drinking! Yes but they’re a cult. That’s the point — they do the opposite of what they say. (The hallmark of a cult member is steadfast belief in the tenants of the cult regardless of the objective truth.)

So AA is actually a drinking club, and their purpose is to promote the myth of addiction as cover for their drinking.  You must confess this if you want to attend: “I am powerless over alcohol.” If you don’t say this you are not welcome. This is classic brainwashing technique. It turns a healthy (but possibly lonely or drama-starved) normal drinking guy/gal into a full-fledged addict.

Classic brainwashing technique. And your disease will lead inevitably to “jails, institutions or death.” But don’t worry we have the cure. Just choose a Sponsor and follow the Steps…. Expect to relapse about 7 times….

So yes, AA is a brainwashing cult that promotes the Myth of Addiction to justify their relapses (and the ensuing fun/sex/drama/mischief). Of course, the stories in the Big Book depict alcoholics as innocent victims of a disease who get drunk and then go home and play solitaire through their tears. But it’s pure fiction (yes, like the Bible), designed to deflect attention from the simple truth. The founder, Bill Wilson, was a notorious philanderer both before and after his sobriety.

Now of course, some alcoholics are not brainwashed into it. They are just plain old liars. They are easy to spot because they will start their drunkalog with something like “I was a born liar.”  And then proceed with the raunchy details of the mischief that ensued from their “uncontrollable cravings to drink.”

Alcoholism is not a disease.  It is modern-day demon possession: the religion of the church of Alcoholics Anonymous, a drinking club for cheaters, rogues, and liars one small crisis away from their next “relapse”.  Also attending are the “old-timers” who recount an embellished history of their own binge/abstinence play (usually lasting through middle age), and proclaim their eternal gratitude: “I was completely hopeless and AA is the only thing that ever worked for me.  It gave me a life I never dreamed possible!” © And finally the life blood of the organization, the newcomers: impressionable court-carders and a mix of the lonely and vulnerable who come in search of companionship and relief of distress, are brainwashed into compulsive drinking and drug use by the cult of powerlessness, and bullied for sex or money.  Sponsors uncover and exploit insecurities (“Step Work”), and feed the growing desperation with an impossible promise: “Keep coming back; it works if you work it.”  They take bets on who will die first (AA Thirst Games) and tout the high mortality rate of the cult’s members as scientific proof of their disease via the National Institute on Drug Abuse.  The survivors of this last group will eventually leave in anger, bitterly criticizing the cult without fully understanding why, and may eventually find their way to deprogramming operations like SMART and SOS.

Don’t believe it?  Check out the Meetings Blog.  Or go to your local AA meeting and see for yourself!

Ready to confess your fake addiction?  Addiction will not end until YOU come clean.  Post your drunkalog as a comment below, or send to info@AddictionMyth.com for inclusion in My Fake Addiction.

284 thoughts on “The Drinking Club”

  1. AA does good I will not argue that. But if and when a person goes to a treatment center like many addicts and alcoholics do probably 80% relapse. The AA way of life in a way is the same as going to church. Then again nothing wrong with it but when church folk in particular associate only with other church goers that tells me they despise non-church goers or think they are not worthy of their company. I have met countless people in AA that are extremely self centered and seem to think they have all the answers.
    I question living in a world of so called non-alcoholics that are full of greed, lies,ignorance,lack of apathy, extremely devoid of any compassion.

    Alcoholic or otherwise I will stick up for myself and when my character is attacked in a way that provokes anger I fight back, this is a typical human response. But in AA you are told basically to suppress your feelings. Religion teaches the same thing.
    I will die a full human bieng having all my feelings good or bad as long as I can laugh with my fellow man I will be happy regardless if my brother in-law is a prick…..!

  2. I know exactly what AddictionMyth is talking about when he says that AA/”treatment” makes people worse off…and so does AA. Ever heard the saying at a meeting, “AA will fuck up your drinking”? It’s a well-known phenomena in the groups that exposure to the groups causes drug use to become more extreme, making the death threat a self-fulfilling prophecy. Many people with a problem that they could have managed on their own listen to the stories in the Rooms and then their “problem” actually becomes out of control. Bring to bottom to you, indeed. The question is, are they predicting your future or are they creating your future? Is it protecting you from ruin, or furthering your ruin just so they can look good saving you from it? I would be curious to study that further, myself, if I were a social scientist.

  3. Good read! From reading the comments, though, it’s obviously not for anyone who is currently under the sleep spell of AA. I just skimmed really quickly but it looks like a lot of people are calling you negative and hateful and then going on to right a long, negative, hateful post about how negative and hateful you are…. Projection at its best! Why would someone who’s in AA and believe it’s working for them go and look for stuff like this to bash anyway? It makes me wonder if they really have some deep-seeded doubts about the program, maybe they are even unaware of.

  4. Oh man… Dude I don’t know maybe you do understand what your doing here and just trying to take desperate souls with you, but I can’t even feel pissed at you. Thankfully your bitter enough that most people see through you and all this rhetoric but do you get the amount of coals your piling on your head for everyone who follows this…

    I attend both AA and NA. Not everyone there is well by any means and I have come across on occasion a pretty sick meeting and you may have to hit a few before you find one your comfortable with but no doubt in my mind it saved my life. My alcoholism and addiction had spiraled to a point that nothing could help me stop. I really did overdose and die. At a time in my life that I did not even believe God existed I might add. I remember waiting for my heart to beat again and suddenly realizing I was no longer breathing as well. I still remember feeling the cold sweep over as I left my body and had my judgement day. I watched my entire life flash before my eyes and then it was over and the vision I was watching shrunk down to a pinpoint like the old school computers used to when you shut them off. I was miracously brought back to life and when I awoke several hrs later I knew without a doubt God had given me another chance. I was saved and truly filled with the Holy Spirit and the next 3-4 days were the most sure that I would never drink or do drugs again and absolutely glorious right up until that 4th day that I started in on my next horrible meth runner and shortly after I no longer believed God existed. This was one of many miracles that have happened in my life and during my addiction. Cause if your an addict or an alcoholic once you finally cross that line of no return there is no amount of fear, chaos, problems, damage to others, or miracles from God that can save you. I don’t care what the scientific facts or religious beliefs are, if your there where I was your fucked. Here is what did save me. My life of chaos and misery that I absolutely hated and although I didn’t want to take that first hit so bad after a couple days sober that I’d manage now n then I still continued to do it. It got so bad that I had to go off by myself until I had that first 1/4-1/2 gram in my system. Even before and as I started up I would get violently ill and puke and dry heave until I was high. This went on for some time. I finally reached a point that was the greatest desperation I have ever reached in my life. This was several years after my death and revival and not only did I not believe God existed I had a hatred for self righteous judgemental “Christians” who don’t truly understand the bible and given me a hatred for the bible as well. In my desperation I walked into an NA room not by court order but of my own free will this time and asked how to get clean and sober. Someone who did not believe in the bible but acted much more like a “Christian” than most who claim to be showed me how to find a God of my understanding and a better way to live through the steps. I have been clean and sober for almost 14 years now and I don’t know for sure if I would still need to go to meetings but I love going. Just tonight I got to spend some time trying to give another struggling addict who just got out of prison this morning some hope he can find a better way of life. Whether he has hit the end of his rope and gets it this time around or not, it certainly did help me grow spiritually to reach out and try help another struggling human being without any judgement or expectations and I really hope he gets it. Anyway my God of my understanding started out as “something bigger than me, helped those people get clean in that room of NA I walked into”. This was my beginning of my path back to God who is still the same I found that day but just grown tremendously and I’ve long ago shortened his name to God. : ) Over time I have continued to work the steps, share my experiences with others, and through additional searching to strengthen my relationship with God I studied all sorts of philosophies, religions, and spiritual beliefs and have come back around to the bible with a complete new understanding than I ever was taught before and accept Jesus as my lord and savior, repent of my sins in his name, and everything I have learned from the bible has strengthened and added to my 12 step program and when I come across people in the rooms who are spiritually ready to hear about God and Jesus on the level that I know him today I love sharing what I know with them and occasionally even get a few to go to church to add to their program. And when I come across someone who was as fucked up as I was when I came into the rooms instead of being a self righteous judgmental prick touting my bible as a saved Christian and telling them they are going to hell if they don’t repent. In the fashion that Jesus teaches me I smile, show them love and compassion as someone once showed me and tell them some of my story as an addict and tell them that there is hope for them if they are willing to find a power higher than themselves and give the steps a try. Then I pray that if it’s Gods will that I may be a vessel of his that I only share what he knows they can handle at that moment so they feel comfortable to stay in the cult. And I pray for them that they may some day be lucky enough to find God in their hearts and accept Jesus as their savior as I have. I’m so sorry that this was not your experience as well. I love my life, I love God, I am so happy I have come to finally begin to understand what the bible is really about and accept Jesus as my lord and savior. I probably read the bible a lot more now days than the big book but I owe it all to this cult. I’m not saying that there aren’t people who get clean and sober other ways and through religion but there are many people such as me who this was the only way it worked and I know it was God guiding me to the best I was able to understand at the time gently back into his grace. If your a “Christian” passing judgement or telling some struggling addict or drunk that AA or NA isn’t the answer and they are going to hell you’d best be careful or you may have a little surprise in your judgement day conversation.

    May God bless you ALL!

  5. If you don’t like the AA treatment then it’s up to you. But don’t put the whole organization into the ‘cult’ thing. I heard one of my friend’s testimonies about his experienced in AA and it greatly changed his life – from a hopeless, worthless to a meaningful and purposeful life now not just for himself but for his family and people around him. He was able to attend other alcohol treatment center in Louisiana but AA was the only organization that help him overcome his addiction. I have nothing against with your opinion my point is that AA can also help other addict to change.

    1. Scientific studies have shown that the best predictor for whether someone will succeed in quitting smoking is the number of previous attempts – the more times someone has tried, the better the chances of the next attempt succeeding.

      Perhaps something similar happened to your friend. In any case, a story a friend told you is not evidence of something working. People have a long history of believing that treatments have helped that don’t help at all – that’s why, for example, bloodletting was standard medical treatment for a very long time. (And killed George Washington)

  6. You should educate yourself before you spew out your garbage. Maybe you would’nt be so hateful if you would forgive your parents for drinking themselves to death. There is a way out. That out is A.A.,working with a sponsor,and living the steps.Just ask the millions worldwide A.A. has helped.

  7. Readers, a good website to check out is outofthefog.net. This web site contains lots of useful information pertaining to the characteristics and challenges of dealing with people with various personality disorders, many of which will often make up the ism of unrecovered alcoholism. Even those attempting to recover are often suffering from some of the characteristics described below. (Everyone tends to display some of these behaviors from time to time)

    An example of a personality disordered individual is someone with:

    narcissistic personality

    This type individual will display the following characteristics:

    -Alienation – interfere with an individual’s relationships with others ( e.g. discourage you from going to AA or whatever method of recovery you find that works for you)
    -Always/Never Statements ( e.g. claims that AA never works for anyone)
    -Unresolved Anger – lots of energy & bitterness for a cause without apparent reason points to unresolved anger
    -speech style – wants to impress but lacks detail
    -center of attention
    -provocative behavior – behavior is calculated to provoke specific reactions in others
    -can thrive on attracting negative attention including shock, anger and outrage

    Common Behaviors:
    *Grooming – Predatory act of maneuvering individuals into a position of isolation and more vulnerable to abuse ( getting the sheep away from the flock–e.g. Getting some alcoholics away from the group where there is safety in numbers. Even in AA the safest place is right in the middle of the winners)
    *False accusations – exaggerated criticism directed towards someone else
    *Belittling, condescending and patronizing (e.g. ” you’re an idiot my dear sir”)
    *Baiting – to provoke an angry or emotional response from others
    *Circular conversations – arguments that go on endlessly repeating the same pattern with no resolution
    *Blaming – identify the source of the problem rather than a solution
    *Pathological lying (out of habit sometimes with no motive but to serve their own needs)
    *Gaslighting – convincing sane people that their understanding of reality is mistaken or false
    *Name calling – try to gain an upper hand and create fear, uncertainty and doubt without merit or cause but simply by negative association or suggestion
    *Self Aggrandizement – pompous behavior designed to create an appearance of superiority or authority ( so that you will believe them instead of trusting your instincts)
    *Thought Policing – attempt to control another’s thoughts or feelings
    *Shaming – calling you “bad” (as in a “bad Christian”)
    *Invalidation – encouraging individuals to believe that their thoughts are flawed, inferior or worthless
    Others include Bullying, Cheating, Emotional Blackmail, Sense of Entitlement, lack of Conscience—not someone you want to follow into a dark alley

    As an alcoholic, someone raised in an alcoholic home, someone in a relationship with an alcoholic ( recovered/ing or otherwise) or if you just work with someone difficult, you may benefit from an understanding of how to deal with disordered personalities, such as narcissists and other manipulators. It is possible to learn how to avoid manipulators and recognize their tactics. Being around people like this can become “normal”. If so, it is necessary to distinguish this type of behavior from healthy behavior in order to avoid becoming repeatedly ensnared by other disordered personalities.

    Many good books are also available on related topics such as manipulation and co-dependency–to help free people from the grasp of dangerous predators or just difficult colleagues, friends or family members.

    Ted Bundy was a classic Narcissistic personality disordered individual!

    In other words RUN, don’t walk away from this addiction Myth guy and whatever message he is pushing.

    1. Real psychology professionals would never dare to diagnose someone they’ve never even met in person, even if they’ve say, seen videos of the person. You’re making a bunch of conclusions about supposed mental disorders based on nothing more than writings on one particular and controversial topic.

      You need to calm down and quit taking yourself so seriously.

      P.S. You’re not even right about Addiction Myth’s gender.

  8. So basically, addictionmyth, what I so entertainingly got out of reading all of the bullsh*t you feel so inclined to share with people who sadly stumble upon your web page of contradictions and obvious resentment’s (Term used in AA) is that you are, simply-put, just a sad, angry, and simple minded individual looking to satisfy all that u lack by getting a rise out of perfect strangers. I want to apologize for whomever or whatever hurt you so bad to the point that you find it so incredibly necessary to voice such a sad interpretation of what YOU (sad, angry, & simple minded) believe is the definition and purpose of a program that has worked or hasn’t worked for the individual who has tried it. Seeing as you find no harm in voicing so openly YOUR opinion on the matter and created such a page to provoke and antagonize a subject in which you so obviously struggle with, (again…I’m truely sorry) I’d like u to give me a fair shot and take into consideration the viewpoints of someone (me :p) who so so so regretfully wasted the time and energy reading your viewpoints (sad story of a sad, angry, simple minded persons struggles and untimely failure in life’s challenges aka disease of addiction). The following is a list of nothing but truth in comparison to all the lies and contradiction that so sadly you feel inclined to share with this (your fuc*ing opinion really doesnt matter as much as u think or want it to) kind of world.

    Number 1. Before creating a page based on obvious debate and childish arguments, have exactly that, a meaningful debate or argument. Does it really freakin matter if u change the minds of those who are part of or have yet to be part of a program , that like i said prior, works or doesn’t work for the individuAL in it? Awesome! You believe AA is a cult and admitting you’re powerless over something classifies you as a weak, brain washed, zombie…if you are trying to save those poor unfortunate souls who you can’t even bare the thought of trying AA, then please do us all a favor and bless us with each and every persons diagnosis and what you believe the solution may be cuz You must know best! You continue to base your opinion on the meaningless issue by your unforunate and unsuccessful go at it in AA. Sorry, but not good enough reason for me to buy into all the hate and lies you have towards not only a program (created merely to try to help those who need it and WANT IT) but your own human race who may literally be searching for that last sign of hope or reason that u so amusingly classify as a “cult”.

    Number 2.) Forgiveness. Yes, it’s possible, even for someone so obviously bitter as you. The reason you created this page was really a cry for help and no, I don’t hate u for it, I think you need to let it out and shame on you! You of all people should know better…this is when you utilize your sponsor! Or I even suggest raising your hand a little bit more at the meetings (you try to act like you despise) that you attend regularly.

    Number 3.) Do a step four….very, very freeing. It helps with that anger you experience on such an obvious a day to day basis.

    Number 4.) Do it again…that’s right, another step four…that’s only after you’ve truly tried and completed all 12 steps (in a row) and find it necessary for the importance of your sobriety.

    Number 5.) Proof read before reacting to Comments that irk you. I would love to list all the sentences I’ve found where u contradict your own statements and beliefs but I’ll end up missing the great speaker meeting I usually attend tonight. I plan on raising my hand afterwards and identifying (even if it’s true or not) with all of it, every single word, while proceeding to tell all of my sick secrets that I’ve kept that may get me high or drunk knowing there may be a chance there’s probably still some sick individuals in the room that may judge me for this but really not giving a fu*k cuz it’s a matter of life or death for me. And yes mr. Addictionmyth man…I said death. Statistics state that drugs and alcohol (abused) can and will cause things such as seisures, heart failure, etc. In the chances of experiencing a detox. Not the flu…wish it felt that way but you already know this.

    Number 6.) Possession…I’ve heard you use this term quite often…Since I’m commenting on a page that is trying to convince me and others that because you say so, a source of help is demonic and has cult qualifications, then I’d like to see the proof/statistics of the success that comes from the healing experienced by an individual whose out on a 6 month binge by performing on them, an exorcism. Sign me up cuz that’s a hell of a lot easier then making a conscious decision to turn my life over,especially to something with such a high success rate, a shot. I don’t know about you, well actually scratch that..I do know…but Id like to give more credit to someone who admits to their faults, accepts the idea that there is someone out there that is greater then the great I, and admit that “hey I rather be powerless and happy instead of hiding behind anger (sadness) and devoting their meaningless time bashing just one of the many resources used by many as a new way of life.
    To be honest with you, I’m disappointed in myself by even allowing someone like u insight on the means to the possible end of such a close minded lonely life. Just please, stop embarrassing yourself cuz thats all you seemed to accomplish thus far. Forgive whatever ass hole that wronged u or shared all your secrets or gave you suggestions you weren’t yet ready to try out in order for a happier life or whatever the hell you think AA did wrong to you and now owes you. Please spare the comment space after I post this the embarrassment and shame because you will only respond with anger and add to the resentment u sabotaged yourself with by trying and arguing such a topic. We heard what you think, we heard you contradict yourself, we heard you believe your own lies and pat yourself on the back for the well thought out comebacks you’ve had toward the viewers that oppose you. Please PLEASE please do yourself a favor and get off the topic that AA was designed to conspire against that dark angry thing u called life. Cuz let’s face it, whether you or 10 million people think and pass a law that AA is indeed a cult, its not what matters. What matters is that until u forgive your little poor self and anyone your pissed at in AA or associated with AA, you will more then likely waste the rest of your life on this embarrassing website when you could be getting your ass to a meeting. But you knew that..

    1. I’m curious about the addiction myth person, fairly neutral. I am in a twelve step program, NA, and have been clean for over three years. There are some very interesting arguments here. But I must say, this post is a perfect example of the point he/she was making.

  9. WHEN I FIRST CAME TO A A 28 YEARS AGO I FELT DISTANT FROM THE GOD THAT HAD BEEN INTRODUCED TO ME BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. I FELT HOPELESS WHEN I LEARNED THAT I NEEDED GOD IN MY LIFE .WHEN I EXPRESSED THIS I WAS TOLD THAT RELIGION IS MANS ORGANIZED CONCEPT OF GOD AND WORKED FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE. AND THAT SPIRITUALITY WAS MANS INDIVIDUAL PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AND THAT WORKED FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE. WHEN I ASKED WHICH WAS BETTER THEY REPLIED WHICH EVER ONE WORKS FOR YOU. I HAVE CHOSEN SPIRITUALITY FOR THAT SIMPLE REASON. MY SPONSOR IS A DEVOUT CHRISTIAN. WE GET ALONG JUST FINE. VICTOR T.

  10. Nothing new about this web site or your feelings. There are plenty of angry alcoholics who won’t work the program of AA as suggested.

    Are people in AA flawed? Ha! Are people in the hospital sick? Sure! That’s why they’re there! At least those who stay and to the work in AA admit it and are willing to work on themselves.

    Do people in AA date? Some do. They’re all told not to in the beginning. But some people will try all sorts of replacements for alcohol instead of working this hard but simple program. Often those most damaged by dating seem to be the people who CAN’T GET a date and burn, burn, burn with resentment. Resentments are the number one offender, not sex.

    Is AA scientific? No. It’s a spiritual fellowship, and it’s hard to describe it in scientific terms. As are many things in life. Love for example. There’s no scientific proof that you can offer to explain or even proves you can love another person. But we all readily accept this without scientific proof or explanation. And everyone is given license to experience it in their own way. Look at all the love songs and poems. All unscientific explanations of a phenomena we all redily believe in, and even hope to experience.

    I after much squirming worked the program. I have 26 years of continuous sobriety. One day at a time as they say. It does work. Understanding and approval of the program is optional, but it does work if you do what’s suggested.

    1. Are you serious! I am not an alcoholic but been to other meeting like CodA, but haven’t gone is sometime, maybe last year but what you say is real far far out there. They don’t create false God’s etc. You are over , well over the top on this one . What they are trying quite simply to do, is to give hope in a spiritual way. Many come in not believing in God at all, or any spirit, like my son. They , don’t want you adoring the toaster next to you as a higher spirit. Man you guys need to take you foot off the accerelator pedal on this one. What they are doing, is easing them into believing in a God, or a higher r entity then they have ever known or believe in. No, it’s not like they want or even suggest that you worship or look at objects or anything else as GOD. (What are U goofy or something??)
      Think of it as tiny steps for people who actually laugh at the thought of God yet are in great pain in their life. They are somehow trying to bring that to them, in their life, as just part of the healing process. You can’t do it alone, and even with support, you find yourself alone. So, most believe in God, but others do not, so they offer a possble alternative to those who don’t, to help them. It’s about helping. really. Many them finally after a while do come to believe in God. Some never will, but the point is to help them. Excuse, me now, I have to bow to my staple, it’s my higher power!

      Take care, and try to be calm.

      1. Didn’t God tell Adam & Eve that if they ate the fruit they would surely die? Then the Snake told them they would not die and would gain knowledge. They ate the fruit and were banished and lived many many years.

        Sounds to me like God wasn’t telling the truth in this little story.

      2. Yes, AM

        What I love is that the Snake, Eve & Adam all ate the fruit, but it seems Eve got the worst punishment immediately after the fruit-munching episode, and the vast majority of the blame by the Church over the centuries “Woman is the source of all evil” blah blah blah -not unlike the way they turned Magdalene into a whore, when in the text she was just a close follower of the guy they claim to follow.

        Huh.

  11. This is the most accurate description of AA I’ve ever read. I blindly ran to a meeting a few years ago after I ruined a lot of good things via my drinking, and quickly learned to love the petty interplay and twisted relationship dynamics between members. I lasted longer with the program than I should have in order to calm the fears of a loving group of friends and family. Proud to say I’ve been able to control my drinking on my own since then. And yeah, by control I mean I’ve had a few drinks in that time, but I’ve never had the same smug audacity to minimize a bender by calling it a relapse, or to lie about my sobriety, that I saw from so many members during my time.

      1. How does the alcohol get down your throat without you pouring it into your mouth?

        Alcohol has neither a nervous system nor muscles, human beings have both.

        I have never been minding my own business and suddenly discovered alcohol climbing across my tongue, leaping off my tonsils and barricading itself in my stomach. Perhaps the answer to this alcohol invasion is to put the FBI’s Hostage Rescue unit on the case!

  12. I want to clarify that my comment was intended for Mr. AddictionMyth himself, not the previous commenter.
    I also meant to say, AddictionMyth, that you are obviously currently drunk, high, or mentally ill AND in such a way that you deny your diagnosis and refuse treatment.

    Otherwise, the only explanation is that you know you’re full of it and are just getting off on whatever attention you can find, or making more advertising money by posting something people will read just because it’s so absurd and they’re morbidly fascinated.

    The nice men in the white coats are only here to help, sweetie. Just calm down.

    1. OK so I’m crazy. And what does that say about you for coming here to argue with me? That’s just sad. I would feel sorry for you except that you are obviously an AA member defending her precious drinking club (though you claim to be Christian). Please just post the name of your Higher Power (with standard capitalization and spelling) and then I’ll believe every word you say. 🙂

      1. It says you’ve hooked me in, I’ll give you that. This is a trip.
        You just accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being in AA, huh?
        Are you a scientologist, or just using their “attack the attacker” handbook?
        Ha. I admit, this is fun.
        Maybe I should come to YOUR meetings for a laugh.

      2. Of course, you are always welcome at my meetings. You just have to admit you can’t stop commenting on my blog no matter how hard you tried. And you tried EVERYTHING!

        You are powerless to AddictionMyth. Keep coming back!

      3. I went to AA then wound up accidentally running over my neighbor with my car. Proof that AA does not work! I need to be more careful when I drive.

    2. Dude- you are on sick person. I’m not sure if you call yourself a Christian or who your Higher Power is (if any). Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn. That’s your problem & not cyber world. Here’s what I will say about the 1st 2 paragraphs of your continuous rant & grammar defying run-on sentence’s: WHY, in God’s name (or replace God w/ “your” umm…”HP”) do you care which humans choose to go to AA, fly to Malibu, enter a half-way house, work steps, pray to God, Jesus or Buddha… The point is, they are happy, healthy & feel comfortable in their own skin. I’ll leave you w/ these thoughts, Mr. Addiction Myth.
      1) Text’s, such as, AA’s Big Book & The Bible contain easy to read SPIRITUAL tools on how EVERY person should live their life. It boils down to a few very simple rules, if you will, that MOST of us learned in Kindergarten. 2) By the sounds of it, your blog is strictly opinion or based on some game of “operator” that dwindeled down from your brother’s- sister’s- daughter’s- best friend’s- 2nd removed Aunt Bobby. Honestly, why bother posting such a said blog & entire website simply based on the hopes to ruin another person. Your playing on the Devil’s Playground, my dear. With the Grace of God; I’m not a member to HIS cult. I’ll pray for you!

  13. Dude, seriously? Have a drink. No one cares. I hope this is the last post in your comments, ever. I’m not in AA. I’m a very occasional, very light drinker by nature. I am a Christian, however – a traditional Southern Baptist, if that rates for you.

    In fact, I’ve read the Orange Papers. They make a few valid points, but they don’t really offer any real either, do they? Of course if they’d consisted only of psychotic rants like you’re spouting so wildly, i wouldn’t think so.

    I just want to tell you, you aren’t fooling anyone. You are clearly either drunk, high, or mentally ill.

    If 1% of the people who read this bought into your desperatiom, you’d be dangerous.

    However, I doubt anyone who wasn’t already swimming in your crazy creek ahead of time will be “persuaded”, so I advise everyone to stop giving this loon his little soapbox.

  14. This is so sad. I am looking forward to moving in with a sober roommate for the first time in my 7 years of sobriety & I think it is nice that we share a common ground in our world view, that we share a common language in terms of the issues we have with fear, anger, insecurity, etc. that we learned in AA. I have never had my weaknesses used against me and I have never known AAs who relapsed and went out drinking together. I’ve known a lot of people who have come back after relapsing and are welcomed with compassion and love. I am sorry you have had such a negative experience. I find it to be most compatible with Buddhism over Christianity. I hope you may find peace and be happy.

  15. Why is it such a fricken problem for people to use whatever means necessary to get sober. AA has helped many people figure out what to do with themselves when they have the desire to quit. It is a fellowship of men and women who all are striving for the same result, SOBERITY. And yes they do say if you are not done drinking or entertain the idea of drinking again to come back when the desire to quit is stronger than the desire to drink. This website could do some serious damage, what a bunch of shit…..

    1. Click on the tab “REHAB SEARCH” to see this guy’s scam.

      Of COURSE he hates AA. They’re giving the milk away for free while he’s trying to sell cows.

    2. The AA 12 steps seem ,on the surface ,to be a great foundation for personal growth and a philosophy for living; however, in the case of deep abuse or trauma, the program taken literally and/or too far can do unspeakable damage. I do agree that the rooms use intensive brainwashing techniques. That is fact. In my opinion it is absolutely a Christian program pretending to be something else and pressure converting people. I still think it has been helpful to me in the short time I’ve been there but I definitely expect to get out once the usefulness has run it’s course and before the brainwashing takes hold. By the way, I definitely suffer from alcohol cravings-similar to cigarette cravings of a smoker. I don’t think everyone experiences alcohol cravings and if you don’t, you wouldn’t understand them. That doesn’t excuse any of my bad behavior it just helps me to know that I really can’t drink(or smoke) lest those intense cravings start up again and make it hard to quit. I think aa helps many folks but damages others. I know there are other ways to get off of drugs and alcohol if you want to. I also think many who should be in therapy use aa to avoid the really hard work.

      1. Thank you for your comments. It is absolutely a satanic program pretending to be Christian. And your ‘cravings to drink’ are really just cravings for mischief. Unfortunately you’ve gotten too far into the brainwashing to realize these things. Just post your drunkalog and it will be obvious (at least to everyone else).

  16. You do know that the 12 steps come from the bible…and before Bill W. wrote the BB he was 12 stepped by a man who came from the Oxford group, a religious based organization. You rant n rave about AA being a cult yet the basis of this spiritual program is from Christianity….guess that means Christians are part of a cult too. Welcome to the real world.:-) 🙂 🙂

    1. The oxford group WAS a cult, not a religious group. The leader profited from it, as did Bill Wilson from AA, as do MANY people in the “recovery” industry from AA still do.

  17. Obviously this article is written by someone who literally has no grasp of the alcoholic mind, as they are not an alcoholic.

    As a sober alcoholic, a highly functioning one at that even when I was an active alcoholic, let me give you an example of how much power it can hold over you.

    I was sober for 4.5 years after drinking for 17 years. My first run at alcoholism isn’t the focus here. The focus is instead on the day, after 4.5 years sober, I tried to have ONE sip. One sip, and the hope that I could drink like “normal people”. Within 3 months I was drinking 1/2 gallon of vodka a day, couldn’t sleep or eat, and vomited every morning. The only way to stop vomiting, shaking, sweating and feeling that I was going to have a seizure was to consume more alcohol. This is not in my control, I couldn’t have one, the concept isn’t existent in a real alcoholic. It was only through somehow, someway realizing I was about to die, reaching out for help, that I was able to practice abstinence from alcohol again. And if I drink further, I might not be able to ever abstain again. It holds that much power over even the most sensible and spiritual people, like myself. You need to realize that is what AA is, a method to abstain.

    Further more, I hope you can understand there are no dues, no membership fees, no cost at all. And the program demands rigorous honesty and helping our neighbor or we can fall back in a pattern that can lead to succumbing to the alcoholic mind yet again. Rigorous honesty? Helping the neighbor? Do those sound like pagan traditions or Christian ones?

    What, may I ask, do you have against a free program based on honesty that helps you abstain from alcohol? Since your not an alcoholic, you have no ability to relate. You also have no “real life experience” (the only thing that matters to a given individual and the only way to “really know”) as an alcoholic so your assessment can hold no water. You speculate…..actual alcoholics know.

    Finally, how are you “helping thy neighbor” with these assumptions you make above? Does it serve you to discredit the only thing that can allow an alcoholic like myself a method of survival and happiness? I dont understand you thought process here at all, as Christian.

    1. My problem with your program is that “helping your neighbor” means convincing them that they are an alcoholic in need of treatment, and “rigorous honesty” means confessing your insecurities and sins to your sponsor, to be used against you if you fail to demonstrate adequate loyalty to the cult, or if you don’t believe that you’re going to be destroyed by your own obsessive and diseased mind if you don’t do as instructed. And then you take bets on the victim’s demise? No these are not Christian values as far as I know. I would actually call that demonic.

      Your story is simply regurgitated Big Book propaganda. You drank away your adulthood to avoid the family and roam for sex (just like your idol Bill Wilson) and you drank again for some other equally banal reason. And all that would be obvious from the drunkalog you recite regularly at your meetings, the sordid details of which you kindly spare us here. And that’s fine, I don’t really care, except that you blame it on a disease, and to justify it, you try to brainwash vulnerable people into excessive drinking by convincing them they have an ‘alcoholic mind’ that is different from everyone else and then manipulate and kill them in some cases by convincing them they are defective and obsessed. Among other obscenities that go on in the rooms, which are the exclusive province of the ‘high functioning alcoholic mind’.

      Alcohol dependence is easily treated medically and withdrawal is not a big deal, a fact that you knew full well during your decades long drinking career. However, you chose to believe that you were dying when you experienced vomiting and the shakes because that would make a better story at the meetings, and you’d be better able to convince newcomers that they are dying too, even if they don’t realize it. I’ve had the flu, it’s really not that bad.

      You say I don’t understand alcoholism? Well sir, you’re the one who doesn’t understand it. You can’t decide if alcoholism is the inability to control your drinking after the first sip, or if it’s fear of death from the shakes, or if it’s a mental blindspot to the simple concept of tapering, or if it’s intense cravings for alcohol while sober, or if it’s the perfectly reasonable albeit mistaken belief that you can have a drink as is the right of any man, and it won’t result in several months of continuous inebriation despite an alleged 20 year history demonstrating otherwise, and it won’t lead to withdrawals, which could kill you, even though you’ve experienced them before many times, and know they can be alleviated with the appropriate treatment. So why not enjoy just a little sip on a fine day like today? What could possibly go wrong?

      Seriously you learned nothing in all the years you attended AA trying desperately to stop drinking. (And now you’re suddenly the expert?) Or were you actually paying careful attention to the stories you heard so you could re-enact them when the time came?

      “Alcoholism” is whatever excuse is convenient to justify the selfish behavior of the ‘alcoholic mind’, a shield to deflect attention from its mischief, and a cudgel to brandish against anyone who might question its precious ‘sobriety’. It is old fashioned demon possession decorated in modern medical terminology. And it is a lie that you use to kill people. That is certainly not Christian, and neither are you. But that’s not my point. My point is that alcoholism is not a disease but a pagan religion based on perverted misconceptions of Christianity. Its church is AA, the drinking club cult of powerlessness that profits not from cash but from the blood of its members, and you, dear pagan, use it to justify your career of drinking and roaming and your new found hobby of exploiting and destroying vulnerable newcomers. Or as you call it, your “method of survival and happiness”.

      You claim that AA works for you, and it’s the only thing that ever worked. Well sir, I know what you mean by that and I think it’s disgusting.

      1. Wowie man, good stuff right there! Incorrect on some many fronts. The most glaring one? Your belief that rigorous honesty stops with a sponsor. That is such a misguided statement. It means rigorous honesty with EVERYONE ALWAYS, including with yourself. Oh yeah, your right – that is a bad trait! Come on man, how can you say living honestly is some how a negative and “demonic”.

        When you throw out notions that being honest and helping thy neighbor some how better relates to being “demonic” rather than spiritual and Christian – you just come off sounding ignorant (and insane really). Sorry to say mate, it will be very, very hard for anyone to take your seriously.

        Good luck with whatever it is your doing here (Im not actually clear on that, not that it matters). The notion that you think you will deter people from a program of honesty and integrity by calling it a cult, demonic, etc is, well, laughable. Time well spent.

        Funny that I even reply to you, your points are so absurd Its amusing. If your here for entertainment, then well played sir!

      2. The Christian God doesn’t demand rigorous honesty towards others, and you are misinformed if you believe that. Chapter and verse? He does however forbid you from bearing false witness. And he forbids you from killing people. If you were not aware of that, well now you know. But I suspect you already knew this, though hardly would I trust the answer of a man who prides himself on his ability to lie so confidently and convincingly that he sometimes even fools himself.

        So fine if you require ‘rigorous honesty’ from your members if not from yourself, but please don’t insist it’s a Christian value. It’s not. If you’re interested in a good list of Christian values I refer you to the 10 Commandments, the first of which is: “You shall have no other gods before me.” That includes any gods ‘of your understanding’, and that’s because, as is now quite clear, one’s understanding may be imperfect. The Christian God also doesn’t remove character defects (again, you were mistaken if you ‘understood’ otherwise), but he does require you to learn and follow his Commandments, another one of which is: You shall not covet your neighbors wife. Please don’t call yourself a Christian if you’re not familiar with that commandment, or if you believe the 10 Commandments is for chumps, or if “Violate every Commandment” is on your bucket list (let’s hope not already crossed off).

        As for “helping your neighbor”, I can only hope this web site will encourage people to think twice before confessing powerlessness to real life demons posing as humble Christians promising the solution to all of life’s problems who then proceed to abuse, exploit, and possibly even destroy the newly powerless victim under cover of ‘rigorous honesty’.

        And for my neighbor who really is suffering, and you want to check out AA, you are not required to declare yourself powerless to alcohol (or claim a desire to stop drinking) at an open meeting. Nor must you stop drinking and abstain for the rest of your life. Better to go to your local church or community center and ask if they have any service positions available. Or just pick up the phone and call someone!

      3. You really are playing on the Devil’s Playground, here, kiddo. I’d be careful, if I were you. But, I’m not…thankfully…so keep on pissing off the world & keep thinking you’re making yourself into a big macho-stud. If you’re true & honest experience was a shitty one, that does suck & unfortunately it does happen. Some meetings out there are better than others. At any rate, what you’re doing here is CYBER BULLYING. I hope you get the jest & go play w/ your own before you end up hurt, or worse, killing an innocent person naive enough to read your nonsense. By the way, medically speaking, alcohol withdrawal CAN kill you, dip. It’s called seizures. I beg you to stop, get help for whatever evil you suffer from; at the very least- go away until you can write facts.

      4. Having participated in both Christian and Pagan religions, I think I’m qualified to say that accusing the pagan religions of being anything like aa is a true insult. There is no question that aa is Christian based-it just likes to hide this fact to try and enlist non Christian members and convert them

    2. My father-in-law reached out too late. He was found dead after vomiting blood over the dining room table by his bible study partner on evening. I had to fly to Israel to mourn and then to pack up everything with my wife. Going through his computer I read emails where he was tentatively asking about joining AA-equivalent. We lost a great man so young. We loved him so much. My wife still blames herself for not realizing the extent of the problem. Thank you for stopping.

    3. Within 3 months I was drinking 1/2 gallon of vodka a day, couldn’t sleep or eat, and vomited every morning. The only way to stop vomiting, shaking, sweating and feeling that I was going to have a seizure was to consume more alcohol.

      You were doing that only because they convinced you that that was inevitable. I know because the same thing happened to me. I was admitted I was powerless, worked the program, worked the steps, loved the program for saving my life, etc. until I woke up. I hope you do too one day and soon. It is surreal. It turns out it was all a lie. We are not powerless, never were. There is no “alcoholic mind”. It’s a great myth of our times, though there is a great body of evidence if you look for it. But in terms of pop culture, the myth persists.

      Read the orange papers. And then go back to your meetings and see what you notice, notice the steps. Notice the language, notice how you feel. Do you really feel light and free? Or do you feel terrified of taking thAt first sip again (better keep it green!), scared that you are not really doing his will, afraid that you are not truly surrendered? Or that even if you are today, what if you’re not tomorrow? After all it’s just one day at a time, it’s a daily reprieve granted on my spiritual condition. What if I’m not spiritually fit? Am I just kidding myself? What if I drink again? To drink is to die…

      And on and on and on. Not much joy and health there, is there?

  18. Wow!! God loves alcoholics! God loves non alcoholics! Even the ignorant one’s on both sides. I didn’t know AA was a drinking club or an addiction maker. I didn’t know God till I got in AA and I didn’t get sober till I got to AA. Interesting how those two things can go hand in hand at AA. Stop the hate. If your way worked so well……you know the rest.

    1. Wow Dave your HP sounds awesome! Please post his name so I can invoke him directly next time I need help removing a ‘character defect’ that could cause a resentment that might compel me to relax and enjoy just a little sip of alcohol (truly the right of any man on a fine day like today!) that triggers an allergy that forces me to drink compulsively til I find myself in the bed of some random chick whose face I never actually saw very clearly but seriously how bad could it be?

      I mean if he can cure your drinking (how many decades did that take btw?), maybe he can take a whack at my ignorance and hate. Please share — don’t be greedy! (That’s a character defect, and you know what happens to naughty alcoholics who don’t quickly admit and correct their defects…. You remember what happens Dave, don’t you… well some of it at least haha!)

      Oh I can’t wait to meet my new HP! Who could it be? Vishnu? Captain America? Toto?

      1. I don’t understand your point. If you’re an atheist (G-d forbid) then yes, your “HP” can be Captain America, but if you’re a Jew it will be the One True G-d. Why is that a problem? Do you not believe in praying for help with your destructive inclinations? I’m not a Christian and don’t know these things so well, but I don’t think I’ve ever met a Christian who believes like you do.

      2. Whether it works is a different issue–just don;t understand your sarcasm and harping on the “HP” thing. I’m sure some people use it the way you say–they are addicts, after all. It’s the general efficacy that’s at question.

      3. Have to say I love the “allergy” claim!

        I’m allergic to seafood and deathly allergic to beestings. If I accidentally eat a piece of seafood (last example: someone made guacamole with shrimp in it – who does that?) I grab some Benadryl to arrest the reaction and continue taking Benadryl and resting til the swelling in my face goes down. If I’m stung by a bee it’s time for care from an MD or a paramedic (happened to me last summer). Neither of these things makes me lose control of myself and wish to have more shrimp or more be venom.! And neither turns me into a lying, cheating, work shy criminal, or makes me want to drink alcohol until I pass out in y own puke.

  19. Addiction myth has not had one invalid point(truth).I am currently court ordered to attend aa and it sucks.I am sober now for 5 months because I have to be,(drug tests).My marriage has dissolved over my use.This disease theory is completely the mental illness or brainwashing by AA.I chose to drink after periods of sobriety.there are not a group of militant cells in my body just waiting to say (ok we have had enough of this lack of alcohol lets form a possy and grab a drink).I choose to drink.To withdraw from alcohol is no fun but tolerable.I drank too much therefore becoming physically sick if I did not have it.I knew this may or may not happen,(My choice!)AA is just a cop out to keep you thinking you are always going to be sick or diseased.What a way to live.The program I am court ordered to be in right now preaches well if you have this disease you picked the right one.What the hell does that mean?Just that it is not a disease,I can stop,or get rid of it by my own free will!I make my own decisions,good or bad.To say AA is not religious is a joke!they say believe in a higher power but the next thing out of the Big book is the word GOD more times than I can count.Believe in something greater than yourself to stop drinking.I know a lake or a tree is larger than myself or I can drown or a tree can fall on me but ask them to (Help) me to stop drinking?That is just plain foolish!AA is based on fear that if you drink or drug you are screwed for life . I am outnumbered surrounded by these self prophesizing sad people.I feel sorry for anyone who cant stand up for themselves and chooses AA to make the choices for them!Say a serenity prayer and”keep coming”.

    1. Thanks for your comment! I attended AA for a while and actually enjoyed it. First of all you don’t have to admit to addiction if you go to an open meeting, and even closed if they let you, which they probably will if you’re nice. But you can otherwise participate as if you were (in some cases) and the discussion often doesn’t even center around drinking.

      For me it was a sport, to spot the lies and exaggerations designed to magnify the power of the addiction that was used to explain the absurdly excessive drinking that invariably resulted in various forms of mischief and dishonesty (and self-destructive revenge). And then there were the blatantly engineered attempts to convince newcomers that this group had the keys to happiness and the answers to all of life’s questions. (If you would only first admit to powerlessness, of course.)

      People may think AA is Christian, but as I wrote in this article, I believe otherwise. They are mostly pagans in the guise of Christians who use AA as a drinking club, relapsing as they see fit, and returning with new found zeal to exploit the newcomers and teach their skillz to the youngins. They are cynical about religion but use it as a tool for manipulation. No need to be too put off by anything they say. [Good liars can convince themselves of their own lies, such as their claim that they really don’t want to drink anymore but just can’t seem to help it no matter how hard they try. This makes things a little more challenging.]

      If you go in with a more skeptical eye, it’s actually kind of entertaining. Yes you still have to hold hands at the end of the meeting. That can be tough if you don’t know whether they suspect that you’re on to them.

      1. Thanks for your reply.Why is it that the truth is so hard to see for these people who believe in AA? I was supposed to be in a meeting tonight but just couldn’t bring myself to stomach the bullshit that they dish.I do go to meetings and keep quiet making fun of these people and feel quite sorry for them as well.If they actually did some research they would find that their mysterious (phenomenon of craving) is caused by an imbalance in Cortisol production ,A stress hormone. This blog is awesome I love reading what these liars say ,pretending they want to stop drinking and drugging ,and some mysterious made up power is gonna help them stop.Just stop! Or don’t complain.Watch Penn & Tellers 12stepping on U- tube.It is great and will give any AA member a heart attack.Listen you can believe what you will but when a court sentences me to a pagan,christian group for treatment that for the weak minded will most likely hurt more than help there is a problem.Separation of church and State!You know that little thing called the Constitution!Thanks for reading.Yes I am an atheist and have been to over 200 AA meetings ,so doubters , I know what I am talking about.Drink or don’t! Its your choice,exercise it!

      2. I don’t disagree about AA, but what do you think the court should sentence you? I’m not sure the alternatives would be any more pleasant.

        I saw a Penn and Teller special about AA a while ago. Maybe not the same one. I thought it was really good but they still seem to think that addiction is real but that AA is just a bad treatment for it. They don’t realize that AA actually created addiction. Yes excessive drug use existed before then, but while people may not have admitted to the reason for their seemingly compulsive drug use, they had one, and they didn’t claim to have an uncontrollable craving without cause. Because that would be a lie. AA gave credibility to the claim “I want to stop but I can’t no matter how hard I try.” And then you feel compelled to drink or drug until blackout. This I call the Craving Lie. It is not a chemical imbalance in my opinion, but simply a lie. Everyone seems to have their own pet theories about what causes cravings and how to reduce them. And it makes me chuckle. AA’s most important innovation was giving credibility to the lie. And I gotta hand it to them, they succeeded.

        And yet if you go to an AA meeting you discover that there’s actually very little talk about cravings. It’s simply not an issue. I have never once heard a speaker describe a struggle against an uncontrollable craving. It’s really just the outsider’s way to understand their behavior, not willing to consider the possibility that they drink just because they want to (and that’s just where they want us). Perhaps a brainwashee might complain about it, but that just marks them as a potential victim.

        I don’t feel sorry for them because like I said AA is a drinking club so really they’re just out to have fun and a little mischief and nothing wrong with that. Also a lot of them know a lot more about the “truth” behind the organization than they let on, and don’t really believe all the things they say. After all, how much can you really believe in religion if you think that Vishnu, Jesus Christ, and a Tree are all equally capable of curing you of a medical disease? AA is definitely not Christian, and the people who claim it is are either retarded, or they are outright liars like the guy in the next thread raving about Jesus. And how much can you really believe that a medical disease that can be cured by a faulty religious belief is not really just a popular delusion? They are probably as atheist as you are, just more mischievous!

        But they do take advantage of vulnerable people, and brainwash them into excessive drug use, and it sounds like that might be going on at your meetings, and that is just wrong (and sometimes deadly). And yes they are all such liars it just blows my mind. But once you see through that it is so obvious that it really is just a relapse club that teaches you how to pass the buck on your own mischief. And they get away with it! “My sobriety is the most important thing to me. So you better be nice to me or I might have a drink and then there’s no telling what could happen!” People should know this.

        Glad you like the blog! Feel free to continue to post your experiences with AA and to expose their lies.

      3. Speaking of the lies and exaggeration at meetings – I bet that’s the origin of that Oprah Book Club kerfuffle over “A Million Little Pieces”. I bet that book was all the stories he told at meetings for years, getting appreciative and even awestruck reactions. But people who live on planet earth would not believe that someone bleeding from the heat would be allowed to board a plane, no questions asked, or any of the rest of the stories that turned out to not be true.

    2. Hi Dan, I’m a 33 WF who’s been through countless “A.A” doors & sadly I have that same powerful little group that keep’s me shaking and sick soooo many day’s. I don’t wanna call anyone in the program, due to I’m gonna save myself the guilt trip, only to end up in…”Hey! Fu** it, lets go have a drink”, could you please email me. I have a question I don’t wanna post for the world. I’ll understand if you don’t reply, No hard feelings. But Thank’s sooo much ahead of time, if you do. Sincerley..Looking for an answer, Jax, Fl

  20. I personally believe that GOD (JESUS) used A.A. to save my life and the lives of millions of others. I always believed in GOD, but I used to think HE hated me because of my sinfulness. TAKING the twelve steps of A.A. was a revelation to me of how much HE really loves me and it changed my whole conception of reality. I was free from the guilt, shame, self hatred, fear, anger, jealousy, hopelessness, self pity etc, for the first time since I was a very young child. I believe the 12 steps can work for a multitude of problems. Not just addictions. AS far as Christianity is concerned, Bill Wilson accepted JESUS CHRIST as his savior at a revival, and the first “meetings” were a bible study, mostly from the book of James (faith without works is dead). If A.A. is a cult, which I agree it is, it’s a good cult. Sure there is going to be lying, cheating, stealing, back biting and womanizing. A good percentage of people in A.A. are still very sick people (physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually), but once they take the steps (all the steps in order), they become new people. That’s the miracle. Don’t knock it until you try it. GOD bless!

    1. You believe you are a sinner and then (coincidentally) you contract a disease that makes you drink and do bad things. What a combination.

      AA is perfect for you. It’s a drinking club for “sinners”. One day you decide you had enough of sinning (it gets a bit too traumatic, or you get tired of the fat chicks, or your wife says she’ll leave you) so you decide to give it up, or at least take a break for a while. Go back to AA. Attend a few meetings and collect some chips. See if there are any cute girls this time. Choose a sponsor and take a stab at some of the steps, why not? At least they can’t say you didn’t try.

      I personally don’t have a problem with the 12 Steps, with the exception of the first step, which requires that you admit powerlessness, which is really just your way of saying that you’re not yet done playing games (aka ‘sinning’), or you are still holding others hostage to your threat of drinking again, and of course that you’re not really responsible for your sins (blame the a-a-alcohol). Which also I don’t have a problem with (alcohol or sinning) except if you blame it on a disease.

      This would be perfectly obvious if you reveal your drunkalog which you recite on a regular basis at your local AA meeting (which I would encourage your neighbors to attend). Most of the younger people at your meeting will drink again (this is a simple scientific fact) despite their belief that it causes mischief and sins (as you note). AA makes their drinking worse by encouraging belief in powerlessness, even if they don’t actually take the first step at a meeting. This starts the binge-abstinence cycle that can last for years (often through late-middle age). As you know.

      That’s the appeal of AA: You can drink and ‘sin’ all you want. Just remember to drop in every once in a while, tell a story of mischief and depravity, and pick up a chip. When you get bored of it, claim that those people are losers and it’s a Christian cult that makes you feel ashamed and judged. And you certainly don’t need more of the Christian moralism that drove you to drink in the first place. (Don’t worry you can still later claim to be Christian with the explanation that you forgot that Jesus had already forgiven you, and even if you still blame him for your drinking.)

      Then finally in midlife when no one really wants to go out to the bars with you any more, and you’re tired of flying solo, you drop into a meeting and suddenly realize that you ‘get it’. Turns out, you were powerless all along! Time for a spiritual makeover. Attend meetings compulsively (don’t worry you can still ‘relapse’ once or twice more if necessary). Realize that you were close to death and it saved your life (if no major health problems just claim that you felt hopeless or make something up) and was the only thing that ever worked for you (even if you drank for years after first attending). Add that it’s helped millions of people just as hopeless as you were (don’t forget that part — the Big Book has sold millions of copies, so it must be true). Obsess on the 12 Steps and perform with gusto. Apologize to the children you abandoned at a young age but remember that not everyone ‘gets it’, or has the capacity for forgiveness (some people are just very sick, but in a different way than you were, and sadly without the benefit of a recovery program, and to whom we can only say: “Enjoy the gloom.”). Share your new-found wisdom with equally hopeless sinners as they drop in between relapses just as you did. Are they still willing to assume the risk of shame and self-hatred in an increasingly futile quest for fun? Let them know that while you had a lot of fun in your day (your drunkalog always gets some good laughs), all you ever really wanted was peace and serenity and the love of the God as you understood him. Which you have finally found — and in fact you are grateful for your disease because of that. And they can have what you have, if they really want it. And I’m sure they do, but remember that they have a disease that makes them drink and do naughty things, so it might be a little while before you see them again (I’m sure you remember how that was). Hopefully at least they’ll come back with a good story!

      Your alcoholism makes you drink and sin. It was caused by a religious belief (possibly faulty) and it was cured by another religious belief, sent to you directly from the god of your understanding, who directed you to AA, which cured you of your alcoholism after several years. But alcoholism (powerlessness to alcohol) is not a religious belief, but a medical disease, even though it is remarkably similar to demon possession and its sufferers feel compelled to drink and sin, and often attribute it to religious beliefs; and it is ‘cured’ by an organization that requires that you publicly declare powerlessness to alcohol if you wish to attend, even though it has been consistently shown to be ineffective in reducing alcohol consumption.

      How can anyone believe that alcoholism is a disease? Obviously your alcoholism is just another one of your firm but convoluted religious convictions designed to justify repeated returns to ‘sin’ and even to blame it on God Himself (at least as you understood Him at the time). Perhaps you figured all this out yourself, and if so you are a very clever man indeed. But I suspect you learned this from AA, which as I said is a pagan cult that indoctrinates powerlessness as cover for excessive drinking and the ensuing mischief/sin. They are experts at perverting religious principles to justify their goals. As a self-proclaimed sinner who is ashamed of his behavior and doesn’t want to be held responsible for it, you now promote the cult’s teachings with religious zeal. You may no longer be a ‘sinner’ (getting to old for that now), you do something almost as fun: promise solutions to all of life’s troubles to the impressionable newcomers who wander into your meetings in search of companionship. If only they would take the first step and admit that they are powerless. If they take the bait, they become vulnerable, and you are then free to abuse and exploit them for fun and profit. The world never treated you fairly so why should they expect any better? And many other justifications. You’re now an expert at perverting religious principles to suit your selfish and craven urges, a skill you enjoy demonstrating to the younger sinners when they drop in for meetings between the relapses caused by their failure to realize that Jesus loves them too (though at this point they probably don’t care very much either way to be honest). Eventually they will feel the love, and realize and proclaim they were sent there by none other than Jesus himself. This can take many years, if your own experience is to serve as a guide, but the steps must be done correctly, and in the right order (harder than it might seem!), and cannot be rushed.

      You taught them well. Congrats. You can be proud. And you can face your waning years with peace, serenity, and satisfaction in a job well done. As you already know, since you’re the expert with the answer to all of life’s problems: Just follow the Steps!

      Thank you for offering yourself as another vivid example of the Addiction Myth in action.

      1. There is no right or wrong, good or bad. Life is about making the right choices for ourselves. I say “Live and let live”, Oops is that an AA slogan. LOL! Peace out!

    2. Thank you Larry H. you spoke with true experience I know I have taken the steps in order.An my out look on life today has changed. Today I work with newcomers go to bookstudys an stay involved with service work.Thank God thru Jesus Christ I have found out he not a used car I DONT HAVE TO SELL HIM TO ANYONE HE SELLS HIMSELF.

      1. Somehow I don’t think you’re selling Jesus. I smell sin and mischief under cover of periodic drug binges, or “addiction and relapse” as you call it. That’s your true religion. Thank you for illustrating my point and I’m sure you’d make Larry proud!

  21. AA is free doesn’t get envolved in controversy is not again any cause or support close mind, intolerance, can keep any human in complete ignorance!!

  22. Have truly never seen such tenacious rationalization coupled with such hate. Except in someone who just can’t be honest with themselves. As in, someone who just can’t get the program. You are like a house of cards reinforced with cobwebs. Better hope the wind doesn’t blow too hard. Best of luck with living so full of venom and it’s corrosive effects.

    1. One day you will say, “AA is the only thing that ever worked for me.” And the words will ring hollow. And you will look away as you speak them, suddenly ashamed of the lie you’ve repeated so many times before.

      1. Your list of lies is admirably long.
        1) AA makes no claim at being Christian. Most AA’s I know are, however. It is described as a “Higher Power” so that the doorway will be broad.
        2)”Drinking Club?” Oh, please. Yes, folks have relapses, but that is hardly news from you, who had apparently claimed to be alcoholic, and now drinks and drugs openly.
        3)Addiction caused by possession? Really, now. Is there more evidence for this than there is for AA “not working?”
        4)Yes, some clubhouses seem to function as places for singles to meet. Some of this is inappropriate, and is frowned on as “13th stepping.”
        You are deluded, angry, hateful, deceitful and thoroughly confused. You have 12th century religious views which would be funny were they not so pathetic. You do not adequately address peoples arguments, instead engaging in ad hominem attacks, further rationalizations or other semi-amusing tapdancing.
        Say whatever you will to this post or about me, I will not be returning here to read more of your misguided, childish nonsense.
        I will, however, be returning to the AA rooms so I can continue being physically and emotionally sober. Why don’t you give it an honest try sometime?

      2. There’s nothing wrong with Christianity, or with drinking (or ‘relapsing’ as you call it), or with singles clubs (or even sex clubs), and I do not believe in demon possession. I’m just saying that you came here to defend AA because you use it as cover for your history of drinking, which you used as cover for the mischief that you brag about regularly at your meetings. If that makes me a hateful person to say that then so be it. But consider that impression is just a defensive response on your part. It’s a natural reaction when the truth hits a little too close to home. Please don’t kill the messenger.

        And I believe one day you will recognize your lies and be ashamed. I hope that you will return here to post your confession. But in the mean time, please feel free to post your drunkalog, which I believe will immediately reveal the truth about whether AA was or was not in fact your drinking club, which you also used to exploit, abuse and brainwash people. Or have you already run away? Darn pagans slipped away again….

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