You learned that your defective, obsessive, and diseased mind is bent on its own destruction: that is simply the nature of alcoholism, your newly diagnosed affliction. Ruin is inevitable.
They exploited the desires, fears and sins you revealed during “Step Work” to exact obedience and stifle doubt.
Then they sent you out into the world to proselytize for them: to convince others they are similarly defective and obsessed even if they don’t realize it, insisting that their claim to drink just because they want to is a lie, even as you deny trying to convince anyone they are alcoholic. And you do it, because it’s an essential part of the only known cure.
Now they sit back and laugh, waiting for you to self-destruct because one day you you wake up in a good mood and forget to beseech your Higher Power for protection from your own mind’s lethal obsessions and at the end of the day when you suddenly remember and reach for the phone to call your sponsor, it’s too late because the combination of vodka you picked up on the way home to commemorate a successful day (an old habit you assumed was long since broken), and a nearly full prescription of vicodin left over from a previous surgery (whose longevity you and your sponsor recently agreed was sure proof of progress even while you wondered why she didn’t demand that you flush it immediately), has already shut down the nerve signalling pathways controlling the muscles in your extremities, thereby rendering a maligned and abused but normal brain truly and hopelessly powerless, for the first time ever.
That’s the most common modus operandi of Alcoholics Anonymous, the brainwashing cult of powerlessness that doubles as a drinking club (oh you thought AA was a treatment for alcoholism? Gotcha haha!), and it happens many times every day in this country. They thirst for your blood because it makes them stronger; your expiration increments the obscene statistic that stands as this year’s testament to the fearsome power of the same affliction that now threatens the life of tonight’s featured speaker even as he stands here before us: a humble Christian, and at one time not so long ago another certain victim of the disease, were it not for his discovery of a simple but powerful program, which worked when nothing else did, and which not only rescued his poor and admittedly imperfect soul from certain death but offered it abundant life; the initiation of which requiring only a willingness to admit the power of an undeniably deadly disease; and for its maintenance his continuous vigilance lest it return. The disease withered as he advanced in the program in which he learned to exercise rigorous honesty in all his affairs; and finally the infernal malady receded, though it left behind in its wake a shameful trail of sin, which he regrets and for which he has made amends, as our program requires. He then proceeds to recount the harrowing details. We listen and much to our surprise he is laughing and we are laughing! The recovery from our condition has strengthened us and made us resilient, and we are able to find humor in the midst of the suffering and hardship it created for us and the ones we care about most. Indeed, we are not a glum lot.
You chuckle along with the group at the stories of mischief, unaware of the high cost the cult has incurred for them, or that this obligation can be satisfied only by the blood of its members. Who will die for this man’s sins? That question never occurs to you. For now you are focused on your recovery, while you relish the warm welcome of the fellowship. Their eager hugs and knowing smiles suggest a genuine appreciation of your suffering, even if the repeated demands for ‘rigorous honesty’ about past mistakes left you demoralized. They say you’re making progress.
You recommit yourself to the Steps as our speaker advised and wait your turn for the promised miracle, wondering if you really have admitted utter powerlessness to your disease as he did, and trying to remember what he even said about that.
___________________
The Real Alcoholics of AA pour their drinks and take their seats, laughing about their new disciples. Who will be first to attain true knowledge? The bets are placed and the curtain is lifted. The demons settle in to watch an eloquent apostle of our “cunning and baffling” condition start her day in a good mood and conclude it in silent vindication. The curtain falls and the room erupts in raucous cheers: the old prank remains as young as the blood that affords it. The winner of the pool soaks in the accolades and starts to plan her merry escapade, which will only wax more lurid in its retelling. Brew sloshes and spills from a goblet raised jubilantly in its own honor.
___________________
My advice is to get out now and don’t look back. Maybe stop by your local church on the way home and see if they have any openings for service work.
And for gosh sakes, don’t mix alcohol and drugs!
AddictionMyth gratefully acknowledges the contribution of Dr. Drew Pinsky for this article.
Read more:
- Powerlessness as Religion – Only the good die young
- The Problem of the Jews: a Lesson in Brainwashing Propaganda – How AA bamboozled a country
- The Drinking Club – Watch what they do, not what they say
- Cory Monteith: The Cult of Powerlessness Claims Another Victim – Fresh from a role as a drug addict
- AA is a Pagan Cult – You got a problem with that?
- School for Scoundrels – What you actually learn in the rooms
- The Little Psychopath Could: How the Addiction Myth creates new Drug Addicts
- Addict Science – A rising Tower of Babel
my name is jeff and im a grateful recovering alcoholic ive been sober for 7.5 years after trying for 17 years. the program you are ridiculing works.the reason the aa philophasy works is there is only one requirement to become member is a desire to stop drinking. that doesn’t mean you have to be sober to join.all you have to do is want to stop drinking. That being said when i finaly gave in to my desire to stop drinking is when it finally started to work. all the one man that i befriended in the program told me to do don’t drink & go to meetings so that is exactly what i do no brainwashing here.the only reason this program works for me i try to take those steps seriously and the only i have to adhere to perfectly is the first one the one i have admitted that i am powerless over alcohol. sobriety isn’t what hoped for but is better than i expected so if you still feel the same way after i you read this response. my suggestion to you is go to a few meetings and talk to some of the old timers about there experience strength&hope they’ll do just that.no sugar coating.
therefore i’m going to say the success rating of this program is about 70% and that’s nothing to shake a stick at i also agree that is NOT the only way to stay sober but it the most recommended way even by the detoxes& alcohol rehab centers all over the world.this program of recovery is free and open to the public whether or not you are an alcoholic or not
When you finally gave into your desire to stop drinking you stopped drinking. Will wonders never cease. Thanks for sharing!
I’m not sure how or why it works…..obviously it didn’t work for you … but it does for me… I go to meetings I adhere to the principals, it works for me one day at a time for about 10,000 days
I swear I won’t impose my beliefs on you I would appreciate it if you would do the same… J New Jersey 12/1986
I swear I will impose my beliefs on you as long as you impose ‘powerlessness’ onto innocent people.
Your scam is disgusting and contemptible! – Chuck M., Freehold, NJ. Sobriety date – 10/15/76.
Critisism is easy…progress is difficult, remembering that opinions are like assholes…as we say in AA, (applies to you I think…)”contempt prior to investigation”. AA saves lives!
Exactly. If you try to think for yourself they call you an asshole. You inoculate the newcomer to the cult’s techniques by demonstrating them.
Where the hell did you encounter that! It sounds to me like denial. – Chuck M., Freehold, NJ Sobriety date – 10/15/76.
My friend suggested to me ” Never argue with an idiot, it confuses anyone who might be listening” I can’t speak for anyone else but I have a big smile on my face. don c
I have never seen or read such closed minded crap. Such contempt. Obviously a person and persons based on the thread that just went to some meetings. If you believe meeting makers make it, then the truth will be painful. Meeting makers just make meetings. That is all. And references to “the leader” such a lack of knowledge regarding real recovery.
Obviously you are someone who is not willing to do the work required to have a psychic change.
Good luck with your way.
We do not have the monopoly on recovery. Other ways do work for many. But AA has changed millions of lives for the better. And I am one.
What a bitter person you are. You must have been coned, because I belong to AA and at no time was I forced to conform or do any religious type ritual. I am not forced into practicing a religion, I don’t even say the Lord’s Prayer. Bill W. borrowed certain concepts and practices from his religious up bringing that worked for him to stay sober and passed them on to the rest of us. If you ever read the Big Book of AA it states “these are suggestions” . What religious order says to its followers “Believe it if you want, but if you don’t that is fine to?” What religious order says “You can make a donation if you want, but hey if things are tight forget about it?” What churches are DUI offenders court ordered to? Do Churches have contacts for people getting out of treatment to contact? I don’t think so. I have yet to find a clergyman who doesn’t get all read in the face and the veins stick out in their throat when I admit I am ignorant about the teachings of the church and ask questions. But when I admit ignorance in an AA meeting and bring up a topic that is spiritual in nature I hear laughter, because those who were once ignorant about spirituality versus religious know the quandary I am in. No where in any of the literature of AA does it say you can be excommunicated from the organization if you go against its principals. There is no one preaching about the damnation and ruin of mankind in an AA meeting. AA is the most open minded, tolerant organization that I have ever had the pleasure to be a part of. Heck you can even drink before a meeting, after a meeting, show up drunk and still be asked to come back as long as you don’t act out violently or are belligerent. What religious organization would allow this? We know we have a problem that takes more than prayer to solve, or meditation to solve. We know that religion alone will not stop the cycle of addiction, nor will psychological, or medical intervention or just doing some good deeds. But hey why am I writing to someone who doesn’t think they have a perception problem? You won’t even post your first name on here but yet you ask others to state theirs. What a double standard you have. I bet you are a recovering religious fanatic who is pissed off because you can not find a cure for being an asshole.
Nailed it !
OK sounds like you were looking for a religion that lets you drink whenever you want and sounds like you found it. Good for you! My goal is just to show court carders and newcomers what they’re getting into (and that they will be called a ‘religious fanatic’ and lots of worse things if they dare challenge your sacred cult dogma).
this website is by far the dumbest thing i have ever seen in my life, whoever is the creator of this should just shoot themselves now. how sad you are..
Bravo! That was a fantastic reply. Thank you, from another friend of Bill’s.
Opening your comments with a description of the writer whose piece you’re commenting on as “bitter” is a rhetorical technique called “argument ad hominem” – basically it means you’re not giving a legitimate counter argument, just saying the argument should be ignored because of a quality you identify as negative and claim the author has.
This is not only not a legitimate way to show any weaknesses in the argument you are commenting on. In fact, it’s like a giant red banner that says, “I got nothin.”
Dear Mr. Addiction Myth (or Ms.)…You are a very disturbed individual…you brainwashed yourself into thinking you are brilliant and now you are trapped in your own mind…nothing getting in…only diatribe getting out.
You’re wrong but don’t worry you’ll get it eventually. I saved a seat for you in the Red Face Club.
WOW! Well this must have taken months, if not years of dedicated research and writing. Not to mention building a very nice web-site. I do find it interesting that you yourself choose not to share an honest truth about your own experience, and what tragedy you have experienced that has brought you to this level.
I find love, light, enlightenment and raw honesty between the walls of an AA meeting. And while I am a greatful recovering alcoholic, I have gone back out several times. Each time was when I turned my back on my AA Program and stopped working my program/steps.
I too believed I could, as the big book put it “drink like a gentleman” (or in my case lady). It never worked. I came back every time. And you know what? The people didn’t throw statistics and jargon at me. Instead they welcomed me back, helped me get back on my program and just “loved me until I loved myself” again.
IF this is the brainwashing you speak of.. well I will take it. Afterall as an amazing speaker at one of my meetings said, “MY brain NEEDS washing”.
It’s my stinkin’ thinkin’ that often manisfests itself in just such “logic” as your web suggests that gets me into the same ole’ mess.
I really wish you peace in all areas of your life. Nameste.
aa maybe brainwashing but i know many people who have gone on to live the good life thanks to aa, world wide.
You know people worldwide?
Can you give us their names?
AA is a drinking club.
Damn.. I wanna sleep with members… sign me up!
It’s easy: “I was never properly introduced to the Big Book so all I did was drink a lot of coffee, screw a lot of new comers and go to a lot of meetings. don’t get me wrong I had a blast!” – http://addictionmyth.com/lie-like-the-wind/comment-page-2/#comment-113413
I enjoy AA and have for over 33 sober years. I am sorry you have been hurt.
I agree. The person who wrote sounds angry and bitter. AA and many recovery programs work if you want it.
Sure , recovery programs work. I totally agree. But AA is not the answer. Christ and his unselfish will are stronger than the lie of self serving that AA teaches. Obviously you couldn’t do it for yourself in the past, well aren’t your children or family whether married or not, enough a reason to stop lying to yourself and others? How bout your higher power? (God right?) Funny how everyone’s anonymous on the blog even those that responded. MMM…. lets not forget the road of trauma these alchoholic put their family n loved ones through. Yes it sounds bitter and angry, and is, but thats the experience myself and many others that have suffered at the hands of this cult. Lets not forget the old saying ” how do you know when a alchoholic is saying the truth? When their mouth is closed. ” im sure most can change and its a individual process. But as for me and my kids and many, many peers in the same situation,,, it doesnt work. And ill gladly sign my name. Nick N. [no names Email only]
If you found out that your experience in an AA group was not common, and that AA actually caused suffering for most of the people who have joined AA groups, would that change your opinion about AA?
Could it possibly be that you stopped behaving badly because you wanted to, and that AA is just willing to take the credit?
AA is a joke! Unfortunately most there members are habitual liers. Go to meetings, have your sponsor, then go home and drink in your private delusional life. They teach selfishness and a twisted view of God . The members put on this show that they are changed and sober” o look at me, im a great person now, and so spiritual”, yet live out there destructive lives in between meetings. They brain wash people into such a self serving attitude that does not fit into any “higher powers” will. They lie to themselves just as they lie to everyone else. They destroy the concept of family. You cant be selfish and still be a productive part of a marriage or even be a parent. O wait, they are all divorced or seperated anyways. What a joke!!
I have been sober in AA for 21 years & have found so much love & understanding. So sorry you are so bitter but I love my sober life & am happy peaceful & productive.
Wow
Afraid to put your name I see…MM
As a professional, I refer people that are struggling with alcohol to AA. Clients need to identify to other alcoholics that have stop drinking. This technique of peer-counseling is very effective and have been use successfully overcoming others areas of addiction. I am concerned that a lot of people are judging before getting illustrated about the 12 Steps of AA and how they work. There is a great difference between wanting to transform a negative attitude and stop drinking. There are different factor and components that make up the negative attitude of an alcoholic, therefore, the existence of the 12 steps. Transforming a negative mind and attitude is essential to in order to live a sober life. Please, learn more about alcoholism, dry alcoholics and sobriety.
If you are wondering why I seem so negative towards AA . My wife was caught drinking and sleeping with several of her “sober , god fearing co-addicts including the leader” and I found letters from her sponsor encouraging this behavior. So yes, it a joke to me. Perhaps someone should look into the practice being taught in the upland California AA meetings? And all this in a church meeting room. hopefully its different elsewhere. Nick.
Yep. People need to know about this stuff before going to AA. Only problem is some will see it as encouragement.
Are you a professional who had to demonstrate having a history of addiction to get hired as an addiction professional?
sounds like this person just couldn’t work the program and wanted to drink anyway
been aa for 30 years, been married for 54 years, believe in asking GOD’S help every day, love my wife completey, enjoy soberity. i bellieve it is a gift from GOD and my do my part to keep it,by saying you know all the answers, means you have no humility.love of life and people are number one goal of this acoholic. BOB K
If sobriety is a gift from God, why would anyone need AA? Haven’t people long had access to establishments that exist for the purpose of communication to/from God?
As in churches?
GOD = “Group of Drunks”
Lest we forget. I sincerely agree with you. It does no one any good to try and deflate a tried & true message inspired divinely to help mankind. I could go on to say more but just stumbling upon this website opened my heart and mind to the true message that I first received from AA back in 1981.
What I still do not understand is why people keep promoting this site by constantly commenting on it. The writer has obviously had either a bad experience with a 12 step or someone they care about deeply(codependent on most likely) left them behind after joining a 12 step. Stop sharing here and promoting it. They are entitled to their opinion but drawing attention to this site, especially if you disagree with it, just spreads the propaganda.
I don’t get it either. It’s like they’re addicted to it.
Thank you for sharing, you have very interesting points of view. Your work here is provocative, passionate & certainly food for thought. One can see that you certainly care for your fellow man by sharing your own life’s experiences, I certainly respect you for that. Keep up the good work & service to your fellow man, I have found that doing “the right things” and helping those in need has provided me with some of my life’s most rewarding experiences. Take care
Sadly, that’s an important thing our society seems to have forgotten – one of the best ways to get over depression is to do something for someone else. Believing that depression – or drinking too much, or any other personal problem – can be cured by sitting around re-telling stories about oneself is a departure from this wisdom that does not seem to have increased the happiness or productivity of members of our society.
And the more we expect the government to set things right for everyone the fewer opportunities we have to do it ourselves. Plus we’ll be waiting a long time.
Government can do many things that make life better – employing air traffic controllers, developing vaccines, inspecting food for contamination/spoilage, employing police & firefighters (in the 19th century, there were private, for-profit fire companies that only put out fires on property of paying customers but Americans socialized fire companies), ran the schools that taught me to read & write & understand the basics of math, science, etc., provide free public libraries (in the 18 & 19th centuries, there were private for-profit libraries in the U.S., but Americans chose to socialize libraries).
Etc., etc.
Wow, Trish, very well said both about addiction AND government.
Thank you, Mike. You’re very kind.
I actually found the concept of powerlessness liberating. It was a relief to realize I wasn’t running the show.
I was / Am ,To smart to get it ( Could Be The Answer Here ?) I Found The Post’s here interesting. . Here’s mine…( I rather spend the rest of my life Believing In A God as I understand Him & be wrong ~ Then Not Believing In One & Being Wrong…. )
Sincerely , Wino Rick .
With almost 36 years clean and sober, I must pray for your health, happiness and prosperity! I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I feel rather sorry for you and thank God I do not walk in your shoes!
By the way…I will let Dr. Drew know that he is attributed to this article.
Keep coming back! It works!
Wow 36 years of brainwashing and exploitation. How many of your sponsees are still alive? I hope your record is better than Dr. Drew’s!
With 36 years ckean and sober all I can say is that I am grateful someone brain washed me! I have a life beyond my
wildest expectations…. but I am aware that there others that have come to sobriety from a different direction. I think that is called acceptance and gratitude. I can accept that you have a different path and in time hope you are able to accept mine.
Sorry but I cannot accept a ‘path’ that requires stepping over dead bodies in a quest for ‘acceptance’. And you can tell Dr Drew that his days of brainwashing people into self destruction are numbered.
Who is Dr. Drew?
This is just about the most inflammatory bunch of bullshit I’ve ever seen on the internet. None of it makes one tiny bit of sense, nor does it even attempt to justify or quantify its own arguments. It just rambles its paranoid, delusional, destructive vitriol in odd, childishly drawn circles of non-logic.
Not only is there no “secret” to AA, it’s hard to argue it’s a “cult” when it’s completely free and always has been. Sponsors, meetings, reading material, interventions are at no cost. There is a better chance of the medical industry withholding data and discouraging research regarding a cure for different types of cancer than there is of AA being a self-serving cult.
Wow. Someone needs to stop drinking their Kool Aid mixed with household cleaning products.
AGREED!
Wow to those who sow pillows over the knuckles of My children’s out stretched hands. Wow to those who turn evil into good and good into evil, light into darkness, sweet into bitterness. For their houses shall crumble under them, their timbers shall splinter and fall. Their own iniquities shall become their stumbling blocks.
Your wormwood is your fruit, and ye shall be know by their fruits.
Your venom over flowith like the ephah onto babel.
Amen!!
It works if you work it.
Great Life To All, Just Remember,
THE STOVE WHEN TURNED ON HIGH HEAT, IS HOT.
One more thing;
You can see when you can see, and hear when you hear. ( J.C. )
None are as BLIND, nor as DEAF, as those that REFUSE to SEE, and those that REFUSE to Listen. (B.C.)
It’s “woe” not wow you dumb ass…
It is getting exactly what he wants every time someone post on here. It is just looking for attention and all of you are giving it to it. Lets all quit commenting and let it see that we ,friends of Bill W., could care less what an empty minded brain dead soap box preacher says. May God bless you and keep you, may he shine on you and show you love.
If you think you can avoid commenting here, that’s fine. Just go out and enjoy your life. If you can stay away, my hat’s off to you. But if you find yourself back here, not wanting to post, trying everything you can think of to get away, but then you’re reading more articles and posting again….
You can’t keep going on like this. Admit it: You are powerless to AddictionMyth!
AA made me run over my neighbor! I was told it would work and it did not!!!!
I’m powerless to your sense of humor!
Thanks for keeping up the good fight.
“This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? Save me from being angry… We avoid retaliation or argument. We wouldn’t treat sick people that way.” As people in recovery it is our responsibility to show others patience, love,and tolerance and not push our own beliefs on them. We know that alcoholism is a serious disease ( that’s science, bitch) but if other people want to ignore the facts that’s their business. All we can do is be there to support the people who need and want help. Let’s focus on the positive and forget about the negative. “If we were to live, we had to be free of anger.” Peace.
Yes, thank you!! My ignorance has always been a problem for me. Perhaps you can suggest a higher power who can relieve me of it? Who’s yours?
YES!! A Sick Mind For Sure!
Too many fried green eggs in the punch he/she drank, along with who knows what.
It is a shame I bet he/she makes a great coffee, and could be useful to the ORGANIZATION.
HA ~ There is no “ORGANIZATION” We have no leaders, nor do we rule any one’s lives. But you have to ACTUALLY READ AND FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS, TO APPLY SAID STEPS IN YOUR LIFE.
Remember, God, loves us all the same, so Bless HE/SHE’s Pea Pickin, Teet Suckin, Wallet Bleedin, HEART.
Praying that She/He get everthing I want and need.
Breathe in,……………………………………………………………………….
Nice to visit but no return trip needed.
Have a fantastic life,
All of You
I have not drank in so many years I forget when I was delivered by Christ. That is one thing that AA cannot do. You have to number the days of your sobriety. It is so darned sad to see those poor pathetic destitute souls who have made it for only one week or one decade stand up for applause. I never got to stay at AA because I would get kicked out because Jeshua is my higher power. AA hates the truth of the word, even ifat the end of the meeting they like to repeat the Lord’s prayer, they don’t understand “thy kingdom come”. I thank God that AA did not like me. I never could follow man. I was made to follow the Lord.
Dear, AdditionMyth.
When I first decided to figure out where to start with my drinking problem I did some “googling” and ran across your site and IT made me feel negative about AA…initially. However, luckly I did find my way to AA shortly after that.
I’m not sure what you are peddling but your website is a disservice to humanity and I can only pray to the Search Engine Gods that your site goes down in it’s relavence on the web. You aren’t helping anyone and I feel sorry for you. Perhaps you should go to meetings and see what AA does for people that seek it. I hope your journey will be one like C.S. Lewis’ where you find the truth in the end and will take your site down. You didn’t do me any favors slowing down my progress of getting into the program.
Your explanation of AA is not the experience that I have had. Bashing something you never really tried is ignorant.
OK thanks I’ll get my HP right on it. “Ignorance” has always been a tricky one for me.
I needed my brain washed !
I think this is goddamn bulls hit
U ain’t in control never will be addiction myth if you think your in control your in denial
i started an a,a, meeting i make good extra income and have all the girls [groupies] i want
I must now wonder why the legal system requires individual with drug and drinking problems to attend AA meetings as part of their debt to society?? I have never heard the courts making the same conditions obligatory to a church or monastery. And by definition they are Cults!! It will be a sad day in the Universe when AA is considered a religion.
Courts send people to AA for 2 main reasons: 1. the War on Drugs has created huge backlogs in courts because legislating people to not enjoy drugs hasn’t stopped people from liking and using drugs (so “drug courts” were created to relieve pressure on the criminal courts) and 2. AA members in their “anonymous” guise influence courts and legislators to believe that there’s a problem in society that AA is uniquely qualified to address.
The reason you don’t see people sent by the courts to a monastery or church is the same reason courts should not be sending people to AA – it’s called Separation of Church and State. At least 3 circuit courts have ruled that people can’t be forced to attend AA/NA because it is religion (apparently in NY State the AAers have gotten around this by just skipping the 12 steps and going ahead to the other parts).
But even if AA were a medical process (which it’s not), it would still not be Constitutional to send people there – adults have a right to refuse medical care if they want to.
AA is a spiritual program, not religious. Very common misperception, though
I never understood why courts sent people to AA who didn’t want to be there. But I guess they have their reasons.
I don’t see AA as a cult. I think there are individual AAs that are really doctrinaire, but nobody has to listen to them because they don’t speak for AA.
If AA has helped people find support for their sobriety, why is it any skin off your nose? AA doesn’t pretend to be the only game in town. All they talk about is their own experience, and what worked for them.
This is a reply to Anonymous who claims AA is “spiritual not religious” – this distinction without a difference was the invention of the founders of AA to facilitate the recruitment of Catholics.
Fortunately, the circuit courts in the U.S. have, at least to some extent, seen thru that ruse.
Wordy windy argument from a left brain wind bag who hasn’t experienced being transformed through 12 steps. Blah blah blah
I’ve seen Doctors, lawyers,Ambassadors, priest, psychiatrist, therapist, agnostics and atheist get sober through AA with years of sobriety, and judges . they all say the same thing. The 12 steps works.
The rhetoric crap is foolish nonsense. Sounds like the ramblings of the Ambassador who also majored in comparative religion and couldn’t stay sober. His spiritual advisor was a maintenance man. You can’t be to dumb for this program but you can be to smart.
“Left brain/right brain” was discredited by the neuroscience community before the year 2000:
http://rense.com/general2/rb.htm
Recent science disconfirming “left brain/right brain”:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0071275
But of course science wont matter to you because you met someone in AA who claimed to have been an ambassador once.
Similar lists of respectable people such as the list you enumerate once thought that phrenology really worked. Turned out it didn’t. That’s the thing about science, it doesn’t conform to popular opinion, only to replicable factual evidence.
Man you have it all wrong and all i can say is i hope you feel gods love one day! Without AA id be dead or in prison. Its the only thing that could have ever taught me how to live life on lifes terms and not have to drink about anything.
I couldn’t agree more. I tried many times by myself with no success. With AA I am sober 21 months. I am very proud, happy and great full.
Forty years and 8mts. sober with AA
Screw you Aholes
Ugh. Have a drink. It won’t kill you.
AddictionMyth is a bitter, resentful attention-seeker who is just trying to justify his own unsolvable issues by tearing down those who have found a solution. He (or she) is behaving just like an organized religion – berating and cajoling…telling you how to act or else. This person wants to blame AA for the deaths of people who would have come to the same end with or without AA.
Addiction Myth is what many would call a douche bag.
Relax. Have a drink. It’s good for your health. Don’t worry you won’t wake up next to a fat chick. Those days are long gone.
You are sick and disgusting.
Yes it would. Those of us with this disease who who would be foolish enough to listen to what you say and continue to use and drink would be participating in our own suicide. Why so angry at AA?
Yes it will
Wow it seems to have made you so happy.
Serenity Now!
AA has many things I diagree with however, parts of it are valid and admitting in front of others that you have a problem with
But AA itself says that you can’t just pick and choose – you have to swallow all of the Koolaid* or you’re engaging in “stinkin thinkin”
*apologies to those killed by People’s Temple, but the metaphor is useful
Tricia, AA says no such thing. There may be individual AAs who think there is only one way to “do AA.” But you don’t have to believe in God, and you don’t have to do the Steps. AA does NOT say you have to do everything that is suggested, or even anything. All you really need to qualify is a desire to stop drinking. There are some zealots, but gravitate instead to the people who are sober, mellow and happy. You will spot them soon enough if you pay attention. And if you don’t see someone like that, find another meeting!
1. My name is not Tricia.
2. You should read the Big Book if you think that it’s ok to not do steps or pick and choose which things from AA to take to heart – the prediction within is that to do so is death, hospitals or jails.
One of the things I notice is your use of the word ” they”. Alcoholics Anonymous is a program spelled out in the book of the same name. If you read the book and use the book as it is written you will see that the program does not tell you to do anything. It never asks you to get rid of old friends. In fact it says that you should be able to go anywhere and not have to fear relapse. Beware of anyone who tells you to do anything other than point out where to find help and answers in the book. Read “Pass it On” to get a better understanding of history of AA and what it’s about. People are not AA, they are members who can be misguided or have other problems themselves. I hope this helps.
I’ve been sober for 6 yrs. Without the help AA. That I tried 18 yrs ago, w/o success. It baffled my mind that every 20-25mins our group would stop & take “smoke” breaks, I realized I started smoking much more cuz of the “addictive” personality I’d inherited from both sides of my family. I don’t think they let you into group unless you are possession of a very large coffee cup/mug! I was told of all the evil alcohol brings into our lives….yet not one lecture regarding the health concerns of cigarettes, or the consumption of caffeine continuously thru the ay. Oh…I was told I had to get new friends, stay away from anyone or anyplace that has alcohol. I thought ‘I am going to have to get a whole new family’ & I guess I won’t be going…just about anywhere! I didn’t make my next meeting-too many rules-& crap to follow-and I had to wait for 12 steps to stop drinking? Too much work involved-drinking was easier! First-if it worked for you, great. But, years sober-do you still check in with them? Sometimes AA, and the neediness of it-is your NEW addiction. Addicts replAce, it’s what we do….
food to alcohol, ahbuhubblcohol to drugs, drugs to cigs, cigs to sex, sex to food…in any combination…n the list don’t stop there. The ultimate and positively one step you need; acknowledgement…..then there’s only one rule to follow; abstinence…..and one thing you’ll need to do you(so u don’t consume yourself with guilt of yesterday’s) …..is to forgive yourself, DO tell whom ever you hurt that you are sorry….then move on! Let it go…learn from it…and accept yourself as you are…a peaceful wisdom came to me the minute I no longer felt guilt. Today…my urge to drink is nonexistent…n feels sorry for the woman I used to be that didn’t like herself…and couldn’t deal with her own tortured emotions, n day after day, year after year climbed inside a bottle to find the answers to life.
If you ever stumble good luck!
Save the letter you just wrote it will make for great “lecturing” at a meeting one day.
AA REQUIRES ONLY ONE THING TO BE A MEMBER
A DESIRE TO STOP DRINKING!
No Dues, Fees, Memberships,
NOT EVEN A COFFEE MUG OF ANY SIZE
AND if you have not noticed most meetings have done away with smoke breaks.
It is not about YOU, Smoking, Sex, Eating, or any other thing YOU want it to be about, it is about
DUH……….NOT DRINKING!
Lastly in My home state we said people like to be right until they DIE, hope that is not true with you.
Make the DOOR KNOB GOD and it will turn on you every time!!
GOD BLESS YOUR LITTLE BITTY HEART!
I quit drinking, and then quit smoking 6 months later. I would not suggest trying that to anyone new! In my case, health problems made me realize I had to quit smoking right away, but my body’s timing could have been better. :/
I love how someone who quits on their own, like you, is dismissed as a “dry drunk” but someone who attends meetings and continues to drink/do drugs, is merely having relapse – a “normal” part of recovery. Which demonstrates that it’s not about quitting drinking/drugs – its’ about being a member of the group.
Another thing I’ve noticed among people I’ve known who attend AA, NA, & ACoA – is that they’re very unconcerned about the anonymity of other people in their group. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve encountered one who not only reveals to me which of our common acquaintances attends meetings, but what they said in meetings as well.
Why do you care?
If it does not work for you then don’t waste your time worrying about it.
Because you need to stop creating new drug addicts. Young people have better things to do with their lives than battling a fake disease.
I commend your goal of reducing addiction in youth. I am a high school social worker as well as a recovering alcoholic and have recovered from an eating disorder which began for me in 8th grade.
I am not in control of anyone’s behavior however, and do not accept the premise that I have made anyone an addict other than myself.
I also do not think that the AA program works for everyone and that there are many other paths for individuals who are seeking to live a life that is meaningful and would like to acquire a resiliency to make it whatever through life throws at him or her.
If a person does not find AA to be helpful they can always leave- that is said from the get go. Also, there is a wonderful principal that “you can take what you like and leave the rest”.
If you truly have the best interest of others in your heart then why would you deter someone in pain from an option that might be a fitting solution for them?
Focus on your ideas of a solution and offer them- put your energies there. There is enough bitterness, fighting, negativity and division in this world already. Let people know of the options so that they can make a choice. If your options work for them they will choose them. If AA is an option they can choose that too. It does not have to be a win-lose proposition. We can be in this life together encouraging each other and accepting each other for unique qualities we each possess. Please be kind.
You brainwashed people into powerlessness and they killed themselves and now you alleviate your guilt by writing ‘please be kind’ posts justifying your precious drinking/drugging club because it doesn’t matter if people die as long as no one’s feelings are hurt.
Well sorry if that sounds harsh, but sometimes you gotta be cruel to be kind. 🙂
Sorry Julie got bit…
But what can expect from a rattlesnake?
Ok, whatever
You win your own game. Have fun feeling better then everyone who does not agree with you
I respect your doggedness to help others
OK have fun teaching addiction and mental disorders to your students and watching them die and feeling superior to anyone who points it out.
Julie:
Do yourself a favor… step away from the creepy kid on the playground who smells like spoiled milk who keeps repeating “I know you are, but what am I? … I know you are but what am I?”
“OK have fun teaching addiction and mental disorders to your students and watching them die and feeling superior to anyone who points it out.”
Capital idea, man! There’s an opening for a poster child. Why don’t you volunteer.
I guess I just do not understand fully. It seems that addiction myth has been deeply hurt by the loss of people that were loved deeply and this happened in connection with their either voluntary or mandated involvement with aa. I acknowledge that aa is not right for everyone. In fact I left the oa program because I knew I was more than an anorexic/bulimic. The program began to tear me down, although in the beginning I believe it did save my life. Both truths can coexist. As I am coming to terms with my alcoholism I am exploring the program again . Maybe since alcohol is not a basic life need like food (although I did begin to treat it as a major food group) the program may apply more fittingly. I do not label people as anything, as a social worker and an Adlerian practitioner I do not believe it is possible or helpful to do so. I was drawn to this conversation hoping to engage in some sort of mutually respectful dialogue and I ended up making a disrespectful remark back to addiction myth and I apologize. There is room in this existence for everyone.
“If a person does not find AA to be helpful they can always leave” – but if you go before the miracle happens then you will die.
“I am not in control of anyone’s behavior” – however I am a high school social worker and convince children they are powerless to alcohol and drugs. Otherwise I have no influence over them.
“You can take what you like and leave the rest” – But then it’s your fault if it doesn’t work – don’t blame the program. The program never fails.
“I was drawn to this conversation hoping to engage” – But if it does not work for you then don’t waste your time worrying about it.
“Please be kind.” – Except if you disagree with me then please just go away. Why do you care anyway?
“I do not label people as anything” – but if they want to call themselves a drug addict then fine with me as long as it helps them admit their powerlessness.
“The program began to tear me down” – but maybe others can hold out longer.
“Hey I said I’m sorry. There is room in this existence for everyone.” See I really am so kind.
It is not fake you moron it is a mental condition that is inherited. The alcohol gene has not yet been isolated however, this does not mean it does not exist.dna is incredibly complex and is far
from being understood.
Wait a second, you are telling people what they need to do!!! Worry about yourself, No one told you what you need to do.
Like what? Shooting up? Lol. This is too funny, thank you for the entertainment. I remember when I used to think this way but I’m much happier not having to know everything and control things that are beyond my control, especially the actions and beliefs of others. It’s very peaceful to know that our differences are what makes life so beautiful. It’d be pretty damned boring if we all thought the same way. Long live diversity in all aspects of life! There would be no good without evil, awareness without ignorance, happiness without sadness…and the list goes on. Balance is one of the keys to serenity. I’m not ashamed to say I’m grateful for AA and the 12 steps! It is working for me because I want it, it’s not something that happens through osmosis. It comes down to taking a good, deep look at myself and making conscious efforts to make positive changes.
It doesn’t work for all, but it does work for many. I say this based upon personal experience. You don’t agree with AA, fine. My loved ones and I d o, also fine. I’m sorry your experience was so negative. You should not assume that everyone’s will be.
This is as good a response as it gets! Whatever a person uses to help with emotional illness and addiction, fine.
I have struggled with AA as well and thought much the same as Addiction Myth does. However, my anger at AA was misplaced. Ultimately found help with a combination of modalities. Now my 39 year old daughter is struggling with addiction, although she will only half admit it. I dropped everything when she asked me for help, and flew out to stay with her for a time. It has been a hellish couple of weeks. I finally went to an Alanon meeting tonight, which helped me through this day with her.
From all the research I have done, I believe there are many factors in addiction – and yes, it is an illness, partly physical and partly emotional. Sometimes it is difficult to separate the two. I had enough self discipline to graduate with honors in both electrical engineering and law. That was a cake walk in comparison to the turmoil addiction has played in my family.
For the record, there is no concrete definitive “gene” or cause for multiple sclerosis, either, but I have it. Oddly enough, I went through similar denial with that, because I didn’t WANT to have it. However, I do and I modify what I do accordingly
Personal experience can often convince people that something works that absolutely does not work – that’s why medications, surgical techniques, vaccines, etc., are tested in double-blind placebo studies.
Here’s an example of how dangerous it is to rely on someone claiming that something helped them: A study of asthma sufferers’ use of alternative medicines (study compared use of active drug, placebo drug, acupuncture, sham acupuncture) showed that many asthma sufferers will report that they feel better after alternative treatments – but the dangerous narrowing in their airways caused by inflammation has not been reduced at all.
Here’s a link to an article about the study in the NEJM:
Wechsler ME, Kelley JM, Boyd IO, Dutile S, Marigowda G, Kirsch I, Israel E, & Kaptchuk TJ (2011). Active albuterol or placebo, sham acupuncture, or no intervention in asthma. The New England journal of medicine, 365 (2), 119-26 PMID: 21751905
I also care because AA/NA has promoted so many claims about the effects of drugs on people that have no scientific evidence, and are unfalsifiable – i.e., there is no way to disprove the accusation or claim. The idea that drug use can cause people to become dishonest, lazy, work shy, selfish, willing to steal and to cheat in romantic relationships has been absorbed by the medical establishment in the U.S. This has resulted in severe undertreatment of pain, and in politicians who want to look “tough on crime” to create laws that make life more difficult for law abiding pain patients. Sadly – children are more likely to be deprived of pain treatment because of AA/NA unscientific claims about the effects of pain medication.
Two examples from recently aired TV documentaries:
1. A girl with severe skull and facial deformities came to a hospital in the U.S. to have her skull sawed into and re-arranged. The hospital told her temporary guardians that they would teach her how to “handle” the pain.
2. A girl in India with a parasitic twin growing from her torso. The doctor told her parents that they would not have to worry about their child being in pain. “We have medications to take care of that.”
It’s one thing if people want to join a club that makes quack claims about human bodies and behavior. It’s another thing when those claims have been spread by “anonymous” club members into our government, medical establishment, media, courts and criminal justice system.
Now government scientists are making fantastical and unfalsifiable claims about the ‘neural pathways of drug addiction’. Based on rodent models. And then they produce propaganda telling parents to ‘seek treatment immediately’ if their child does drugs or has a drink (or has a new friend who might). Of course what they don’t say is that most ‘addiction treatment’ has been thoroughly infiltrated by the 12 Step cults which of course deny it. (Any treatment that extols ‘recovery’ or requires ‘abstinence’ or ‘sobriety’ has been compromised.)
The networks are in on it too. Like CBS 14 Days on the Wagon. Jeez people have a drink. It won’t kill you.
Addiction Myth – not only that, but at least since the Clinton Administration the federal government has pressured TV & movie producers to incorporate addiction-based story lines -in which drinking/drug use has a destructive effect on the character who uses (the same way the Hayes code required that any criminal in a movie must be punished by the end of the movie and no criminal could be depicted as getting away with any crime, the better to use drama to “fight crime”)
One lame example was the parents on Home Improvement finding their son’s weed and giving him a big speech about how if the police had found it, his life would be ruined: no college, criminal record, etc. (at least they didn’t parrot the lie that he’d become “addicted” turn into a criminal and die in the streets)
Also, it’s interesting what can be gleaned from numbers from the government/media. Notice how increases in drug deaths are always reported going up X% (when the number is small – say a state averaging 100 heroin related deaths, and one year it spikes to 138 deaths – OMG 40% increase in heroin deaths! It’s an epidemic!) Plus if one considers how huge the drug market is – how many gazillions of dollars are spent for drugs in the U.S., it’s impossible that all the drug purchasers/users are criminals. A lot of people who purchase recreational drugs treat their drug use budget the same way they treat their movie ticket budget (“I’m broke this week so I’m not buying weed or going out to see the new George Clooney movie”) and don’t “turn to crime” to pay for their drugs.
Another fantastical claim from the government that takes as a given that addiction is proven to exist:
Tanning bed users can become addicted to tanning, even thought they know tanning can cause skin cancer!
Link:
http://www.salon.com/2014/10/19/yes_you_can_become_addicted_to_tanning_partner/
Let’s say all you say is true.
It’s big in 180 countries, with 3 million active members, most of whom say it saved their lives… and not just from a “drinking problem”, but more with their “thinking problem”.. you know, the “what’s wrong with me” thing. THose thoughts that drinking fixed. And, adopting some kind of Higher Power concept, that each member invents, AA has no definition of one, has helped with that. Turning to that vs the bottle is what works.
AND of course, its FREE… which I note really rubs the addiction industry the wrong way.
Millions of people can be wrong – it happens all the time.
For most of the 20th century “everyone” knew that stress caused ulcers. It took a medical researcher who found h.pylori bacteria consuming the bacteria and causing an ulcer in his own stomach for the world to come to understand the truth – that most ulcers are caused by infection (a small minority are caused by excess HCL secretions or stomach deformities).
Ulcer patients used to get psychotherapy. Now they get antibiotics.
Science is not a popularity contest. No matter how many people believe a thing, something that isn’t true does not become true.