Lie Like the Wind

So you want to attend AA but not sure if you’re really an alcoholic? That’s ok.  You don’t have to know for sure.  All you have to do is lie. That’s what everyone else does.  Confess your powerlessness. Say that you want to stop drinking but can’t.  No matter how hard you tried. Who knows what that even means?  Maybe it’s really true.  Embrace your alcoholism.  Wear it like a badge.  Re-evaluate your entire life in this new context.

And if you’re still not sure, just lie.  Lie like a rug.  Lie like a Louisiana hooker.  Think of a stupid thing you did and then blame it on alcohol.  It’s easy:  I <insert sin here> because I drank <insert alcoholic beverage here>.  For example, “I lost my job because of rum.”  “I yelled at my wife because of fuzzy navel.”  Don’t worry the stupider it sounds the more everyone will believe it.  And the best part is, you can always resume ‘denial’ as soon as you step out the door.  Remember, AA is a drinking club.  Go to the bar and have a drink.  In a weird way, it actually proves your lie — just be sure to call it a ‘relapse’ and remember it’s a normal part of ‘recovery’.  Congratulations on your shiny new disease!

If you do this, if you perpetrate this simple lie, I promise you, the scales will fall from your eyes.  A new world will open up in front of you.  You will witness and discover amazing things.

So go ahead, lie like the wind!  And have fun!  Just remember, don’t mix alcohol and drugs!

Then come back and report your findings in the comments below.

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237 thoughts on “Lie Like the Wind”

  1. Wow! Everybody seems to be an expert on one topic or another here. How about letting another human being have an opinion without bashing them to bits and work your own programs? Maybe take a look at your own program to find where it’s lacking. You may find the reason you are so disturbed by another’s opinion.

    1. I need a drink! I have been in a relationship with a man who has been sober for blah blah blah…however many years and since I am 60+ and never had a drinking problem I have to ask…How is it that AA cranks out so many critical, judgemental people who constantly look for flaws in others? I thought it was an ok thing for those who need it but after seeing first hand the effect it has had on this guy I see things differently and now reading some of these post…wow!! Makes me WANT a drink….Since I do not wish to develop a drinking problem, I will in the future stay far away from the apostils of AA. I came here looking for some insight on handling his irritating, hurtful behavior and I found my answers and made my mind up that nothing positive will come to my life via this relationship. Thanks for validating my feelings that….I need to kick this guy to the curb.

      1. Yes 🙂 No good will come of it. Their ‘peace and serenity’ derives from righteous superiority to anyone who disagrees with them on any topic especially AA. There is no limit to their manipulations, and they usually even admit it. Save yourself endless heartache and let him be someone else’s problem.

      2. Seems strange that AA is blamed for your partner’s attitudes. It was probably the attitude to led to his addiction in the first place. Just because the drinking may have stopped doesn’t mean that the whole person is healed. AA is just the start in the healing. It’s best to understand that alcoholism is just the effect of a cause that must be uncovered.

    2. RU KIDDING ME? With all the recovering alcoholic/addicts that I have met and known both before and during recovery, I’ll take AA, CA, NA, (any)A anyday!!! Those of us in recovery don’t waste our incomes on intoxicants or regret our every move the next morning. Once we have made amends, we don’t fear someone coming back from our past to tell us what we did wrong because we already owned up to it. SERENITY NOW!!! I’ll take sobriety anyday. Thanks for the site. It attracts non-believers who need to hear this. God Bless.

    3. im reading quite a few all or nothing opinions on aa in here. aa is like any other social setting out there. people are people. very few can be fully trusted most cannot. most people can be trusted to a point and there are many varying degrees of that. people have character flaws no matter where you go. aa asks you questions such as can you trust yourself and do you really know yourself. most people would rather drink than face some of these tough questions. aa is for people who want it not people who need it.

  2. Wow! So it’s true. There are people who are ‘constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves”. Or maybe this is just a case of someone who is suffering from a “grave emotional and mental” disorder. Either way, my hope is that you overcome it.

    1. WoW. Sounds like a disgruntled drunk that can’t stay sober and is now an AA basher. Keep coming back. S. B. Date 2_12_06

      1. Self honesty may keep you sober. You may need to get sober if you have time/ are obsessed enough that you would go out of your way to describe your denial. You are half way through the first half of step one. Try harder asshole. I have been sober 6 years w/out a relapse and am proud of that. Write about something you are proud and know something about next time you cunt.

      2. Why the negativity and name-calling in comments? It overrides anything said that could be helpful.

  3. I once found a website called godhatesretards.com by mistakenly clicking a link in an article I was reading. It was psychotic. Some religious crackpot asserting that people with Down’s Syndrome were demons on Earth. It was really creepy. It was this super-sick, monumentally ignorant rant. I understand that the Internet is littered with such opinions about a multitude of subjects yet I am still bewildered by such rabid hatred….of anything. This blog reminded me of that experience. I found this discussion quite by accident and am not affected by its contents personally. I thought it may be helpful to mention as a subjective reader that delivery is as important, if not more so, than the message itself. The combative tones and personal attacking does not lend to the validity of either side of this issue; if there is an actual issue here at all.

  4. The tone and content of this post is not what I would aspire to. I am not sure of the point the writer is trying to make. Cynicism and bitterness do not add credibility and draw interest.

  5. Wow? I’ve been brainwashed and didn’t even know it. And on top of everything else I’m in a cult and didn’t know it. But in all honesty I don’t care because the cult brainwashing me prevents me from drinking. Oh and guess what? Despite the fact that I’m being brainwashed I still have to work at my sobriety. It’s a shame that some people are “chosen” and some are not. Those that are not are the ones doing all the complaining and therefore should not be taken seriously.

  6. Like every other group on the planet, A.A. has all kinds of people. Everyone going to meetings isn’t shallow, stupid and/or low class without proper guidance. Plenty of A.A. people are great folks who are not and do none of the crappy things listed above. I don’t really pay attention to folks who say all of something is one way. All Christians are hypocrites, all Muslims want to kill you, all politicians are evil. The entire Catholic Church is {put your favorite hate here}, A.A. is a {cult, drinking club, insert your favorite resentments}–all of that. Doesn’t sound like any thoughtfulness is behind the opinion. I also don’t care for people using the place to comment on an article or blog to instead chat to talk nasty to each other.

      1. Clearly you have no idea on what it’s all really about. Alcohol is not the root, it is simply the only solution “Alcoholics” know. AA is about purpose above ones own selfish needs. Not a judgement upon ones self or others. It is about perspective. This opinion above is misguided and a poor representation of what AA really is.

      2. Clearly you have no idea on what it’s all really about. Alcohol is not the root, it is simply the only solution “Alcoholics” know. AA’s purpose is to convince vulnerable people that their problem is alcohol itself, not everyday disappointment and loneliness, and if they can just stay sober they will be ‘happy joyous and free’ like everyone else. Of course this sets them up for failure as it doesn’t address the root cause, and that makes them easy prey for AA predators (aka old-timers).

      3. You know nothing. Says clearly in the BB: “Our liquor was but a symptom.”

        Try reading it.

      4. @Anonymous: You know nothing. Says clearly in the BB: “Resentment is the ‘number one’ offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else. Never forget that resentment is a deadly hazard to the alcoholic. This business of resentment is infinitely grave. We found that it is fatal. We believe, and so suggested a few years ago, that the action of alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy; that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker.”

      5. Moron…ok, that’s a personal attack.

        Our liquor is but a symptom. Of our personal issues.problems.delusional thinking.sociopathy.whatever…
        Think the last on applies to you particularly well.
        Frustration leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering…
        You know, the whole Yoda thang…
        Liquor is but a symptom of our overindulgence in life problems. We drink to deal with these problems. An unhealthy escape. The Program, a healthier escape. My opinion. Know you differ. Difference is, you are a chronic liar as witnessed on this blog. So…
        Our anger leads to resentments and we drink again.
        Wouldn’t expect a sociopathic liar like you to be able to represent anything honestly.
        If you tell me the sun comes up in the east, be sure I will be out first thing in the morning checking.

  7. The twin concepts of “relapse” and “dry drunk” are proof that AA is about being in the club, and not about quitting drinking (of course the fact that 6 steps mention God, and Zero steps mention quitting drinking is also a clue).

    If actually quitting drinking wad the goal, then people who quit without attending meetings and reading big books would be respected for this achievement. But people who manage to not drink without attending meetings & reading/parroting approved books are dismissed as “dry drunks” – supposedly having all the negative personality traits of pre-rehab “alcoholics”. Meanwhile, people who don’t manage to not drink while attending meetings, spilling their guts to a sponsor and reading/spewing the contents of big books are not failing at the program, they are experiencing the part of the program in which they do drink before they get to the part of the program when actual not drinking is finally achieved.

    It reminds me a lot of how many Americans assume atheists are untrustworthy because they don’t believe in God, and no matter how many ministers/priests/rabbis/devout believers commit horrific crimes, believers can be trusted because they believe in God.

    1. Indulgence in alchohol carries negative energies that some don’t realize until they refrain from it. Whatever helps them to stop drinking can usually cause a change in consciousness whereby they accept the higher power within themselves which is the cause of their lifestream. It can be called God although it doesn’t matter what it is caused. Once one becomes aware of it, it gives them power to accomplish many things.

      There are those that believe in God but do not know of God through personal experience. Those who only believe in God may be subject to negative energies until their consciousness rises to the point that they know God. The atheist is likely to carry negative energies to a greater degree which may be felt by some who then don’t trust them whether they are known to be atheists or not.

      1. ok, i get it. this is a site that believes that GOD will do for you. that GOD can do anything. to set a few things correctly, abstenance is not recovery. one must do work, wether it be buddist or taoism. granted, there are nuts in every jar of peanut butter, and one best look out for oneself. but i see injustice in every corporate boardroom against women. i don’t hear you yealling about that. it is a choice. i have 21 years, but i also have a life. i have a job i enjoy, and i don’t drink or use. that is a choice. i am also an Atheist. so, here’s a suggestion for you GOD-ders… get into your car, and scoot up to, oh say, 100 MPH. then, jump quickly into the back seat and let GOD do the driving. good luck with that. it is about a chioce. i demand better of myself. and indeed, i found i could not stop drugging. with the help of the fellowship of AA/NA, i have. that alone has value. onwe must just set parameters. if i chose to build an upside down house, i’m sure, with the proper cajoling and reinforcement, i would have an unlimited number of numbskulls helping me in that project. P.T> Barnum was correct you see. ther eis a “sucker born every minute”

      2. I have no idea what site you are talking about since I don’t have a site that even mentions God. Your writing reveals you as a miserable person full of negative energy. This is not a criticism although you are likely to take it as such. Maybe you will want to know the difference in what positive energy does for a person when you go as low as you can get. There is a saying that misery loves company and I am not the one.

        Negative energy is negative energy whether you are atheist or not, and those I know who call themselves atheist speak about a God that I don’t believe in. When was the last time you were happy?

    2. You are all ignorant about this disease and what recovery truly is. Your false sense of self pride and arrogance is proof that those who simply stop drinking aren’t actually recovering. I am an alcoholic and AA saved my life. If I had read your comments prior to walking through the doors of my own salvation through AA, I would be dead now! So thanks for nothing you ignorant, conceited critics! Perhaps you all should research and investigate what the AA program is all about before you send hopeless alcoholics to their own deaths by reading YOUR lies and listening to your own puffed up, inflated egos!

      1. Oh what serenity you have, I so want what you have. If AA saved you assuming that you have the spiritual peace and serenity you think you have why do you still lack the ability to simply accept people, places, and things as they are supposed to be? Even resorting to name calling…no wonder people slander AA like this writer did. If you aren’t a living example of the Big Book then how else do you expect people who think it is a pile of nonsense to talk about it when you sound like a brainwashed cult member defending Bill W-ism? I go to meetings and I see this arrogant self righteous attitude in the good old boys club that I avoid like the plague. You ever hear the saying that if you have so much time sober why doesn’t your face show it? Just keep that in mind when you want to stir up a passing contest. By the way, I do say these things to people’s faces so this is nothingoing out of character for me.

  8. i just love how the male aa is always the predator, I had a crazy bitch stalk me to the point I lost my girlfriend. eat shit mother fucker

  9. “Nothing pays off like restraint of pen and tongue.”, “It is ever so hard to believe that any human beings, no matter who are able to be infallible about anything”, “Pain is the touchstone of all growth”, ” We have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a disease entity “, “Perhaps we carry the principle of tolerance too far, and if we find that to be true, I am sure we shall be willing to adjust our viewpoints.”, “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”

    1. The truth is I do know something. It is a function of my being teachable. Is saying I know nothing actually a true statement? If I knew nothing how teachable am I? I am not sure others experience but when I pontificated about my humility and knowing nothing it was false humility unrelated to the truth of who I am. I do know something. I do have much to learn. I also hope I never again denigrate what the twelve steps have taught me by saying what isn’t true in an effort to appear humble.

    1. There is no cure for alcoholism……there is only abstenance…. Whatever gets you off booze and drugs is the answer….keep at it till you find what works for you! May you find peace!

  10. I think I understand what you mean about addiction being a religion not a disease…maybe along the lines of repeated thought patterns and behaviors. Like religion, neurological pathways become patterned and habitual. I have heard of a addiction being termed a “spiritual disease”, which makes sense to me. Our mind tends to continue with patterns or phrases that make us feel better…whether it be drinking or recovery. Brainwashing, if you will. I understand that my addiction to pills and alcohol was a means of escape, dulling my emotional pain. I played the same tapes over in my mind…things like, “if you had my life, seen what I have seen, you would drink too”. Perhaps both addiction and recovery are rooted in psychological relief of cognitive dissonance. When life becomes too uncomfortable, we must create new neural pathways that provide us with relief.

    That being said, for some people that are so foggy they don’t know where to start, I guess AA provides some structure, some basic principles. It sounds to me like your friend had a really bad experience with some programs when she tried to get help. I am so sorry that happened to her, and to you as her friend. I did get sober in AA…I needed a safe place to listen while my brain and body healed. I was lucky enough to find a laid-back group that I attended for 90 days. I haven’t attended since then, because I am really introverted, and the natural politics and prey/predator dynamic that arise in any group of human beings makes me uncomfortable. I stay sober now by reading the Grapevine magazine, reminding myself as needed of the kind of life, self-pity and excuses I don’t want to return to. Anyway, I am not really an active member of AA, so could probably never be counted in any success statistics…but I will always be grateful for the initial guidance, the hope it gave me and the example of the healthy members that at least showed me it could be done. Again, It seems you had a bad experience, I wish that hadn’t happened for you, because it seems like it hurt you really badly. Anyway, just thought I would say I think I might understand your perspective. Good luck, man…

    1. I’ve always had a good experience with AA. No need to apologize. I’m just trying to warn vulnerable women to beware the lesbian who claims she rarely goes to meetings and insists their claim that they drink just because they want to is a justification and a lie. And can teach you some cool native american rituals to help you ‘stay sober’ if you’re interested… but first attend 90 meetings in 90 days like she did, and of course beware the predators (of which she is not one) who will take advantage of your newly diagnosed ‘powerlessness’ even as they pity you for your obvious pain.

      1. Oh, I have met a couple of these ladies at the women’s groups. I know what you mean. They are the still active alcoholics who ask you for a ride because their car is broken down, then “hold you hostage” for 2 hours to take them to run errands. When all you intended was to go to a meeting and come home. Yes, there are some people that take advantage of a newcomer’s good nature. I found that a white lie about a busy schedule works well with such energy vampires. There are usually only a couple of these in the room, so I had to learn fast who was really working their program and who wasn’t.

        Then, you know the ones that are only there to get their DUI paperwork signed, and have no intention of working the steps? In my opinion, for anyone less than a year sober, the best people to connect with are the people with 20 to 30 years sobriety. Their advice and intentions are generally solid. It’s ok to look at the eye candy that walks in with court ordered attendance slips, but perhaps not a good idea to get too friendly. For me, the company I kept was a matter of life and death, and I was not fucking around. Nor was I there for social reinforcement. Once I clicked with the meanest old timer in the room, I was safe. I sat next to him and nobody tried to chat me up when I was trying to focus.

        I believe that newcomers would do well to remember that even if you are at an AA meeting, you are still dealing with addictive personalities, users. They may or may not be truly sober. And most alcoholics and addicts (including me) have similar perfectionistic, heroic and egotistical character defects underneath, and that these traits are raw and unfiltered in early sobriety. Anyone working their steps is trying hard to overcome these defects, and you will know these people by their humility and honesty when they speak. If you listen carefully while people are speaking, you can learn more than sobriety tips, you get a whole character analysis by their reactions, choices and emotional state. And no, you don’t have to be the jack-ass whisperer for the person having a hard time that day. Leave it to the old timers, and focus on your own sobriety goals.

      2. Yes, I would enjoy learning some Native American approaches to recovery, when you have the time to post some. Thank you 🙂

      3. Well, well…. if it isn’t Mister Small-brained, micro-perspective, *addictionmyth out trolling for company for his misery 😉

        I just happened on this website and am momentarily distracted from the content of bloggers article upon seeing your combative-as-always (combative unless, that is, the viewpoint stated mirrors your own –please see ‘arrested emotional development’).

        Sir, clearly, you have been inoculated against gaining perspective and insights on subject ‘substance use disorder’ on top of your having a gargantuan learning disability with regard to ‘the golden rule’.

        With all due respect, you appear to be stalled in cluelessness and mired in your own putrid stew of self-loathing. And, without any further concern on my part as to due respect for you; Your nonsensical, bottom-dwelling rants on websites that deal with the subject ‘addiction’ are the stuff that guttural yawns result from :-).

        But, hey, keep it up. What the heck. I reckon’ we can always use a good lesson in ‘how NOT to’ in regard to engaging rationale, reasoning and appropriate social behavior- Lol…especially when it’s delivered in such a delicious spectacle of obnoxious effrontery, by an individual who is so obviously plagued by a smorgasbord of social affliction… such as yourself. Congratulations 😉

        Hey Grandpa?! What’s for supper? Well… Readers of Addiction Myth’s comments can always count on a heepin’ helpin’ of slow- roasted Misogynist, (emphasis on ‘slow’ ;-), served with a blackened side of self-incriminating Bigot, and some deep-fried Narcissism to round out the dining experience. Yum! Yum!

      4. Golden rule: If I was being a lying hypocritical ass I’d hope that someone would tell me. One day you will be grateful. 🙂

        I learned a long time ago: If no one will tell you what you’re doing wrong in terms that make any sense to you, then you can safely ignore them.

      5. You are being a hypocritical lying ass…
        You’re welcome.
        You don’t have any sense, so you cannot understand what sensible people are saying to you…
        Therefore, you are ignoring the wrong people…
        Oof…you are truly dense.

      6. And yet you can’t seem to ignore me. You challenge me and then I hand you your ass on a platter. So you run away crying. And then a few days later you’re back for more!

        Admit it! You are powerless to AddictionMyth!

      7. This is your delusion…
        Embellish it however you want…
        I only say what I say since it seems the consensus of comments here seem to think you are not in touch with reality.
        And that, my friend, is because no matter how sensibly things are put to you…even when people agree with you somewhat…you just twist it all out shape…into something it isn’t…for your on convenience.
        As to “handing me my ass on a platter.”???
        Just more of your delusions.
        It all springs from your self-grandiosity and dishonesty with self.
        Just waiting around for you to dis-assemble, as most such personalities do!!

      8. I’m not interested in ‘consensus’. I’m interested in the truth. Which would be obvious if you would just post your drunkalog or state the name of your ‘Higher Power’ (with the correct spelling and capitalization) as I’ve asked you many times.

        Of course you refused. That’s fine. So allow me (based on everything I’ve ever heard at every meeting I’ve ever been to): “I drank, I got drunk, I got high, I hit my wife and then went out looking for sex. And yet I wasn’t satisfied.” Rinse/repeat til middle age. “Then I went to AA for the hundredth time and finally choose a HP (which is private, but the name rhymes with ‘Thayton’) and I could escape the wife without even having to hit her and convince the girls I meet there that I’m a respected psychologist and they are powerless to alcohol and gonna die just like I was once. Then I demand a recounting of their sins and insecurities with ‘rigorous honesty’ and then I have complete control over them! I love AA! That’s why I hate when anyone tries to scare away the girls!”

        Of course, you now claim you are not a member of AA and never were, and never tried to convince anyone they were an alcoholic. Exactly. Lie like the wind. Promise to go away and never return and run back to your meetings and complain about the idiots online but it doesn’t bother you anymore because now you’re a master of ‘serenity’ as you try to catch the eye of the new girl. And then you hear some other inane AA platitude and come back here and parrot it thinking that finally you’re gonna stump me.

        Well you can keep denying it, but it’s time for you to try some rigorous honesty for once in your life. Admit it: you are powerless to AddictionMyth!

      9. Most who post here:
        Reasonable facsimile of truth.

        AddictionMoron:
        I am a broken record…blah, blah, blah.
        Lies stacked on lies…

        You sure are impressed with yourself.
        Is anyone else except your three sycophants who share your personal abberations?

      10. One thing I did get wrong, though…
        Darn it…
        I really wanted to watch your very sick personality fragment…
        Too late
        Already did…
        Looooong time ago.

      11. Look who’s obsessively replying now.

        And with your signature unimaginative middle school insults.
        No relapses for me.

        If you don’t want to be dissected, maybe you shouldn’t be waving your emotionally underdeveloped mind around in a public forum.

        Hmmm…bored again. See you around.
        And no, don’t get your rectum all puckered…that’s not a threat.

        Just going to watch for a while…waiting for your very public implosion.

      12. I’d like to offer this, respectfully, because I once felt as AddictionMyth does. I’ve shared in your disdain. And when searching out those hypocrisies in AA, you’ll find them everywhere. And the more you search, the more you find. And the more you find, the more ridiculous it seems. Depending on the emotional constitution of the whistle-blower, anger, disillusionment and all around fucking jadedness ensues. I’ve been there. BUT…where is it written that AA should be some Utopian society where everyone is authentic and caring and real? Does this exist in other groups? Doubtfully. There are variations of enlightenment, fundamentalism, hypocrisy, and evangelicalism in every single fucking society and sub-group across the planet….why should we expect anything different there, among drug addicts? I’ve since let go of the belief that AA should be this or it should be that…it doesn’t matter…the only thing that matters to me….that REALLY fucking matters to me….is not sticking needles in my neck ever again.

      13. The only reason you stuck needles in your neck was that your beloved cult convinced you that you were powerless to heroin (and you watched too much Requiem for a Dream and other after school specials designed to brainwash impressionable children). In fact, heroin addiction is EASY to cure.

        Fine if you want to go to NA. We have freedom of religion, thank God. But I’m just warning people to beware the confession of powerlessness or you might end up sticking needles in your neck like this poor soul.

    2. Whatever we choose to call it, it certainly wreaks habit in the lives of the addicted and family members. One fact is many present suffer from other issues as well. If someone attends a meeting an wants help they will find it if someone attends a meeting looking for messed up people they will find them

  11. I am a grateful member of AA / NA
    The program works IF YOU WORK IT
    there is no brain washing you are simply there at your own free will and you come and go as you please. You grow and learn to live sober and it is amazing most of us never had a chance sense birth it was all we knew drugs and alcohol but thanks to the fellowship and the program i have another chance at a better life. I feel sorry for you and i pray one day you will hit your rock bottom so you may rise up and join us as productive members of society
    After reading all these comments I want to throw a shout out to all my fellow Alcoholics and Addicts your words are all inspiring THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR WISDOM

    1. I chuckle when I hear it called brainwashing as if attempting to live life with integrity, respect for self and others, practicing empathy, admitting when I am wrong and bring there for others and trying to do the next right think according to that soft still voce we all hear when quiet

  12. I’m not ashamed to say, but that comment was absolutely retarded. You didn’t address the statistics. The program doesn’t work, or make any damned sense. You contradicted yourself, and seem totally unaware of it. You had to have a will to go to a brainwashing group, and believe that it could help you to do what in reality, was all you.

    I won’t try to debate with a retard. Been there with “addicts” before, and the insane circular reasoning is enough to drive any reasonable individual mad.

    I wonder, are you always happy? Doubtful, unless you’re truly so very unaware of what’s going on around you. I’m happy at times, but sad at others. It’s called being a human being.

    As for the agnostic/atheist chapter, hah, I’ve been to enough groups to know there’s quite a bit of variance between the chapters. Some might claim to be accommodating, but … just no, man. The owner of this site seems to have had a bad run on that topic within group.

    1. Actually millions have found relief with the program and while not always chipper I no longer am caught out living from crisis to crisis. My skin fits just fine. I learned forgiveness as well as acceptance of self and others there which just makes daily life easier and over time stopped wanting to drink and believe in one less divine being than most people at meetings

  13. really!? WTF???

    People can’t stop drinking, they go to A.A., they stop drinking.
    Why do you want to fuck with that?

    1. They don’t. 70% of people who go to AA don’t last a month. 95% don’t last a year. Guess what the spontaneous sobriety rate is? 5%. That’s without the religious hoopla and spiritual jargon that is AA. AA is less effective than no program. It doesn’t work.

      We fuck with AA because they like to fuck with peoples heads and fill it with nonsense.

      1. The only thing this site has managed to do is dispell the myth “Ignorance is Bliss”. Contempt prior to investigation is the epitome of ignorance. The only requirement for AA “membership” is the desire to quit drinking. There are no dues or fees for AA membership. There is no requirement for a belief in God. As a matter of fact, our literature has a whole chapter dedicated to agnostics/athiests. We believe there are many ways for people to achieve sobriety. We don’t find it necessary to belittle or slander those other methods. We simply share what has worked for us. I hardly consider myself myself one of those “retards” who was brainwashed by the Program of Alcoholics Anonymous into the belief that I was an alcoholic. My life had become unmanageable due to my drinking. Self will was not enough for me to quit drinking. Taking the Steps of the program, attending meetings and the support of the fellowship showed me a way to live life alcohol free. And by the way, relapse is not a requirement. Taking a few simple suggestions and opening my mind to the possibility that doing things differently (my way wasn’t working) has given me 22 years of sobriety. I have found a new freedom and a new HAPPINESS. I hope someday you will find the same.

      2. versus the nearly 100 percent who don’t stop who don’t go. A chemo treatment that caused remission in 30 percent of patients with a fatal cancer would not be called a failure

    2. And because “can’t stop drinking” is a lie. Which you use to brainwash vulnerable people into “I can’t stop drinking” so you can exploit them for fun and profit. Don’t believe it? Just post your drunkalog and see for yourself.

      1. How exactly does someone profit at AA? I would say “don’t have the emotional wherewithal to stay stopped” is more accurate. I fully acknowledge it isnt for everyone it is only for people that want it. Why is it so important for you to denigrate others experiences as false just because they aren’t your experience? You could stop anytime you wanted by force of will…that is great it wasn’t my experience. One of my experiences was realizing addiction in part is a disorder of how I viewed the world and my black and white thinking that could not fathom the existence of more than one “right” answer blinded me from the real world

  14. I first and foremost would like to say that “addiction” is not a disease. In my humble fucking opinion it is not a disease. I work at a rehab center, and I hear this shit spout from every addict in here. “I can’t help it….I have a disease” or “Oh relapse is just part of the disease.” What I see is people fail over and over again, and if they never choose to curb their use they eventually die. But what I also see is the lack of personal accountability. The act of blaming your fucked up decisions on the “disease” or the chemical is just a blatant easy out. Is it too much to ask to be a decent human being these days? On the other side of that same token I also see people that society has forgotten. People who are undereducated, and lack basic social skills. People who have quit giving a fuck. People who have created no structure in their own lives, so they rely on AA, NA, etc. The very same notions that bring people to AA, and the like are the same notions that keep people drinking, and using. I am not saying that drinking and using are the issue, but rather the people. The people I work with are assholes. They have no common decency, respect or sense. They manipulate everything, and everyone around them. I am a firm believer that anything can be a drug. Anything we do has a chemical response whether it be eating, drinking, sex, video games, making music, listening to music or a giant BM. I have had conversations that have left me higher than any joint/drink could. People need to find what fucking fulfills them. People need to know what they are actually capable of when they set their minds to it. Christians with cancer, don’t(in most cases)/can’t just pray their cancer away. It takes real life work, and conscious decisions. But even then cancer may win, now that is what I call a disease. We are the sole arbiters of our futures, and the sooner every simple minded, sheep headed robot out there realizes that the better. Don’t be the cancerous christian praying for relief. BE THE FUCKING RELIEF! I’M OUT!

    1. I’d agree that people should take more responsibility for their lives. But I blame the First Step: “I am Powerless”. I mean you have perfectly healthy 20-somethings saying that and it’s ridiculous. And how many young people give a shit about finding god? Only the sorryest losers.

      It’s fine to join an organization to help create structure in your life. Just stay away from AA/NA. Unless you understand that it’s a lie. In which case, please just try not to kill anyone.

      1. Well, as far as “powerless”, I believe this term (as far as recovery) really means being ruled by unhealthy thoughts; the overwhelming urge to say “fuck it”, I want a buzz. Or, I can’t handle this day, or ‘these people’ without a buzz. As you said, I am able-bodied. I am a 130 pound female horse ranch hand, and I handle 1200 pound animals all day long. I can move bales of hay by the hundreds, and can unload two tons of horse feed bags before lunch. I don’t say this to be arrogant, I only say it to shed light on your question. Even with physical strength, I was still powerless over pills and alcohol. I had to admit my weakness in the ‘I like to get fucked up’ department, because I couldn’t leave work without taking a Xanax or a couple of Soma and heading to the liquor store. I was powerless to overcome that urge because I didn’t understand the root cause, or how sick my thinking and patterns had become. It was a gradual, subtle decline. And power is a multi-dimensional concept.

        As far as finding God…well, I know from working in nature that there are healthy and unhealthy plants, animals, soil, water, etc. When something is toxic, it is obvious. AA may turn some people off with speaking about God, and a daily spiritual relationship. Yet, I think they mean well, and AA originated from immersion in a primarily Christian-based culture and generation, and uses a language and approach that the general majority of people can grasp in some remote, even if angry or feeling abandoned by God kind of way. I am not really Christian, more of an American Indian pagan/naturalist I guess, so I just replaced the word ‘god’ in my head with ‘good’…I wanted to be healthy, not bitter and resentful anymore. I went with that, attended AA and it worked.

        So, yes, I was a powerful, but powerless person. I still feel the claws of addiction scratch at me on the days I am tired, angry, frustrated or overwhelmed. But my desire to not be toxic, to have good and healthy thinking patterns and coping skills in my life makes me go home from 42 crazy ass horses, and neurotic, weird horse people to a cup of coffee and a hot shower, instead of the liquor store.

        I also wrote the post above about religion and neurological pathways, because I have a lot of time to think while I clean horse stalls, lol. And this is my point… AA gave me a safe place and guidance toward a healthy way of approaching my past, my troubled relationships and my lack of personal coping skills. They offered suggestions, some of which I took, some of which didn’t feel right to me. But I wanted to be healthy bad enough that I saw through the political bullshit and some of the crazy people. Just like anything else, you have to chose your company carefully. And for me, that meant tuning in with the old hippies, the ones who had done it all and seen it all. They weren’t there to hurt or prey on anyone, they were there to show young hippie, stubborn asses like me that life can be good again. And they were not church people either. They quietly tolerated the religious approach because it was working for some people, which made it worthwhile.

        I guess I am saying that AA will be what you make it. If you want to dissect and criticize it you can, but you may be warding off a skeptical person who is trying to get sober from the one thing that may have worked for them. Because, even though I don’t go to meetings anymore, it was the one thing that worked for me, and I am glad there were 4 meetings a day for me to choose from when I was finally serious about getting sober. Whether I liked or agreed with everything they said, it didn’t matter…it saved my ass because it was there, open and available. Oh and did I mention free, as in ‘I have no insurance and no money saved’ kind of free? And nobody cared that I smelled like a barn either, they just offered me coffee and a chance to listen to other alcoholics talk about different ways they used the 12 steps to get sober (spiritual detox is what the 12 steps are for me).

        When I put my pride aside and looked at what I COULD relate to in each step, well, all I can say is it worked, and it is still working…going on three years in September. I am still healing my mind and my heart, because I did a lot of damage to myself, and had some seizures from the pills, but I feel the growth continue to happen. Every couple of months or so I feel stronger, wiser, calmer. My IQ will never be what it was, some of my memory and reasoning capacity is just gone, but that’s ok. I am learning to develop other parts of my spirit that perhaps mean more.

        Yes, this is a long personal story, but in case someone who wants to try AA sees this, maybe they will at least try a meeting and see if it works for them. Because everybody is different, and no program is perfect. If you want it bad enough, you will make it make sense, and then use it, or not. It didn’t work for my best friend. She still picks it apart and judges the god part of it. But it worked for me in my own way. And now, I can even sit next to her while she drinks, because I don’t want it. Wanting or willing myself to quit was not enough. I had tried several times, and I was white-knuckling it, and really bitchy. It is the daily coping skills I learned and use almost every day that are still keeping me sober. And I re-wrote my own version of the 3rd step prayer, and spoke it every day, whether I ‘felt it’ or not. Hope this helps someone out there…

    2. What possible knowledge could you have of what addiction is like if you are not only not an addict but not a professional in the field? Just because someone with MS says it isn’t there fault they cant use the pedals on the car if they hit someone so an addict is responsible for their behavior. No rehab is telling them it isn’t there fault. They are telling them you may of been sick but you are responsible for your behavior

  15. @David Grover

    What does a genetic difference in ability to metabolize alcohol have to do with alcoholism being an addiction? Not a damned thing.

    I bet you feel great about going into debt, getting an edumacation, and not critically thinking your way into that piece of paper.

    They really are pumping out a bunch of putzes these years.

    1. it is actually a disease of the dopamine process in the brain that once altered sometimes never fully recovers normal function. In the addict brain they become dependent on the drug to maintain an equilibrium and homeostasis take it away and the physical detox from the disease starts

  16. @Matt Hanel

    His “cure” flew over your head. There is no cure for a non-disease, hence, I have the cure!

    The answer has always been will-power, in one form or another, under our conscious authority or through unconsciously jogging it with “the program” (and many others out there, AA has horrible stats to back up it’s efficacy).

    AA didn’t keep you sober, you willed you did. Spoken from a non-retard, non-AA member, sober guy all year long so far. I did this. I author my life. I own my choices of every day, through experimentation, going too far, and now in sobriety.

    1. aghh, “you will you did” should read something a little more, English-like, let’s say? … “You willed it to be”… that sounds a little better.

      1. Ugh. I don’t trust anyone who touts ‘abstinence’ or knows their ‘sobriety date’. I just hear someone setting himself up for a binge.

        Have a drink people. It won’t kill you. If you really think you can’t control it then contact me and we’ll figure it out.

      2. Or you could just, you know… develop healthier life habits. I’m keeping busy with business related matters. Nothing on my mind about abstinence and the tab was closed sometime last week. Just noticed that.

        For me boredom was the big deal and reason I toked and drank so much. Now I’m learning new skills and applying them to earning more monies. No longer as bored, and making healthy social connections. I still socialize at bars, but the quality of discussion is often lacking. Drunks are a bit annoying, though I don’t mind the moderate drinkers. I’m becoming bored with that scene, though, and need more cerebral stimulation. When the reason you started becomes the reason you wanna quit, it’s an easy lifestyle change.

      3. Fine then don’t claim it’s a matter of willpower, when you just admitted that it’s not. And if you think I am trolling you, STOP AND READ YOUR COMMENTS AGAIN EVERY WORD SLOWLY.

        “The alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn’t think so.” (Big Book of Lies p. 62)

  17. “You’re doing it to yourself every time you call yourself an alcoholic.”

    You either have a reading comprehension problem, else are trying REALLY hard to troll me, just cause.

    “Of course, you will cry that my simple logic is ‘twisted and irrational’ and that I’m ‘holier than thou’ and hurl any number of insults. And you will not admit you’re a liar even though you admit you’re lying about being an alcoholic.”

    We both know who the liar is here. I have repeatedly referred to alcoholism as a non-disease, and never to myself as an alcoholic.

    “And complain that AA is for retards and losers and then say you’re going to attend. Again, all of that’s fine by me. But I’m just showing that your ‘addiction’ is just a cynical lie to score chicks or sell supplements or whatever you’re up to and eventually you’ll be claiming it’s a real disease because that’s what it means to call yourself an alcoholic. That’s all I’m sayin’.”

    I have said that AA is for retarded people and losers, in the context of it being a program that works to help people fight off their “alcoholism”, and “disease”, by means of claiming powerlessness, and buying into a bunch of hoopla. Your attempt to reframe the context to suit your choosing is again, weak sauce!

    I don’t relapse, or sell any supplements LOL! , this trolling is rather weak on your part. Surely you can see I’ve continued to call out your lies as is, right?!

    Anyhoo, you’re the loser here, who pays google to promote your pathetic website, so that you can troll your own site, replies, and even your own babblings.

    My suggestions:

    1. Realize that you’re a nerdy eccentric and accept it.

    2. Start working out to either gain muscle, lose fat, or both.

    3. Learn the right amount of jerkiness to charm ratio needed to suck in the ladies.

    4. Dismantle this pathetic site, and move on with your life.

    I’m out of here.

      1. That retarted cult has kept me clean for 9 years. However, if you have the cure for this, I would think the product would be overflowing with membership. Why the need to advertise? We don’t….I can walk away whenever I want without judgement. Your judgement however of something you are to lazy to work for is the only thing that resembles a Cult to me. If you had a “will” over Drinking and Drugging, why would you wait this long to impose it? Why not put your foot down before your life has turned to this sad Hell? Oh, well, best of luck with your “Cure”. I do wonder though. If you’re cured, why aren’t you off moving on with your life? Nothing you claim is rational and you sound like uneducated, lazy dope fiends that are looking for a shortcut in the same dirty carpet you hoped you could find that piece of rock that fell last year…LOL Hope your little blog cures us all. I’ll be on the next plane to your trailor park…

      2. Alcohol is only mentioned in the first step for a reason. Having just completed the Addiction Studies program at the college level, I KNOW beyond a reasonable doubt that alcoholism IS a disease! Get it “dis” “ease”. People’s bodies don’t physically process alcohol the same way a normal drinker does. Can you pronounce “acetaldehyde”? Why don’t you look things up before you denounce proven science. AA an entity that has provided relief for millions of people for 79 yrs this month.

    1. When I went to AA meetings, I never affirmed that I was an alcoholic because I wasn’t. I understand that there are those who deny that their lives revolve around alcohol and never will admit it. By admitting that they are in the clutches of alcoholism, they can help themselves out of it.

      I used to smoke cigarettes and it wasn’t until I accepted that I was addicted to nicotine did I easily turn away from cigarettes. Sure, I still have a desire to smoke, but I don’t want to because of the addiction. If I smoked a cigarette, within an hour I would want to smoke another, and this would continue as it has in the past. Therefore, the addiction is never satisfied, and by knowing this, I refuse to smoke and the addiction does not control me.

      My addiction to nicotine helps me to understand how the AA meetings can help alcoholics out of alcoholism.

      1. So your “addiction” was mere desire to smoke and the free choice to continue on. Your ability to break the addiction was a product of critical analysis of the cost to benefit ratio.

        I simply think there’s great harm in framing words that have negative connotations regarding our choices in habits. The ability to reframe it back into a choice and ability to overcome by willpower alone is what actually enables it to be so.

        I smoked from age 13 to 18. Cold turkey for a few years, then socially after a buzz from drinking. Haven’t had a single smoke all year. Just another wise choice 😉

      2. I do believe that aa helps alcoholics come together as one. They do desire the need to stop drinking. It works If you work it with others.

      3. Very well said James… ” the addiction is never satisfied, and by knowing this, I refuse to smoke and the addiction does not control me.” Very imspiring

      4. AA, traditionally speaking, is primarily concerned with alcohol.

        Tobacco is habit forming – by most folks standards – as is marijuana also, even if by different mechanisms.

        So why, in AA., is one smoke almost a sacrament while the other practically a taboo?

        Will ‘Colorado recovery’, that being the ‘treatment of alcoholism’ with perhaps non-prescribed legally available dope become, if not the NORMAL for AA than at least an acceptable spiritual path?

        I am asking for help….

      5. Did you even read the article? You can drink and smoke as much as you want as long as you lie about it: either that you don’t, or if you do that you are in denial, or that you can’t stop no matter how hard you try. Now go back to your meeting with your eyes OPEN and the answer to your question will be obvious. Contact me directly if you need further assistance.

  18. “I agree. I have more character disorders than you could shake a stick at.”

    I call it: being a human being syndrome

    “Just ask anyone on here. And it sounds like we both agree that addiction is a religion not a disease.”

    For sure

    “Of course, you’re going back to AA eventually. I can smell the growing desperation. Nothing wrong with that, except that you will be insisting that alcoholism is a disease not a religion.”

    Your attempt to implant this notion in my psyche has been noted, and rejected. I have never seen alcoholism as a disease. Weak sauce!

    “Nothing wrong with that either, just don’t be disappointed when I remind you that you’re not exactly a credentialed scientist. Even when you insist that you understand the neurobiology of addiction and know the perfect protein supplements to counter the cravings. Which you happen to have in stock right now.”

    I do take whey supplement, but that’s because I lift with heavy compound movements several times a week xD I’ll also for sure be bouncing around the chapters in my local area as the years roll through, just because it’s funny to double entendre the suckas and lure more ladies into bed.

    1. So you’ll go to the meetings but not introduce yourself as an alcoholic? “Hi I’m Brandon and I can control my drinking.” They don’t like when you do that.

      1. It depends on the group. You have to feel it out on the fly. Sometimes it’ll work to your advantage to play it one way, sometimes the other. You obviously got butt-hurt at AA.

      2. Obviously. But don’t accuse me of ‘implanting notions’. You’re doing it to yourself every time you call yourself an alcoholic. Of course, you will cry that my simple logic is ‘twisted and irrational’ and that I’m ‘holier than thou’ and hurl any number of insults. And you will not admit you’re a liar even though you admit you’re lying about being an alcoholic. And complain that AA is for retards and losers and then say you’re going to attend. Again, all of that’s fine by me. But I’m just showing that your ‘addiction’ is just a cynical lie to score chicks or sell supplements or whatever you’re up to and eventually you’ll be claiming it’s a real disease because that’s what it means to call yourself an alcoholic. That’s all I’m sayin’.

      3. They don’t care if you don’t introduce yourself as an alcoholic and I don’t believe in affirming what a person doesn’t want to be. However, those who are in denial about being able to control their alcoholism can only come to grips with it as a first step by accepting that they are alcoholics until they can affirm their way out of it. Otherwise they won’t control their drinking.

        Later they may never drink anymore and they can eventually accept that they were alcoholics. Remember, there are 12 steps to the program and it has been successful for many including those that started the program. I have a brilliant nephew who admits to being a functioning alcoholic but hasn’t been ready to stop for some reason.

    2. “I call it: being a human being syndrome”

      Amen again! I Focused on my character defects with this cult for years and it nearly landed me in a mental institution. I was a good girl and stupidly believed all the things they told me here (even though I was smart in other ways, I learned not to trust myself anymore with the help of these cult meetings). So I did what a good girl does, work the steps, three meetings a week, trust my sick controlling sponsors. After five years, I wanted to die. Thankfully I finally had a true “awakening” and got out. It SICKENS me to think of the years I lost to this sick program. I am no sicker than anyone else now, no stupid selfish diseased alcoholic, just a human being, like you said. We sometimes act shitty to one another. The end.

      1. thanks anon. you want to chat at all, come see me on soberrecover, branbran. I’m trying to rip up the “disease” model of addiction on that site. PM, if you dare!

      2. very true. the “sponsorship” that is “suggested” is a joke. there are no suggestions, because as you can see from some of the supposedly sober responses on this forum, the minute you disagree with their “cult-like knowledge,” you are x’d out of the group. i knew a girl with 22 years on that program that wanted to move and didn’t because her sponsor said it wasnt a good idea. lol. are you kidding me?? and then some have grand poopa sponsors. oh, and lets not forget that they call new people “pigeons.” ugh!

  19. Anon, the reasoning is circular. You can’t become an alcoholic until you prove you’re an alcoholic. It creates a feeling of powerlessness.

    I had difficulties in the last few years moderating my drinking. Controlled it well for the first 15 years or so, then got a string of bad experiences due to what was likely sufficient liver damage interacting with the natural decline of my body to process the alcohol as rapidly as in my youth. 2 dwis later and a couple of bent rims had me reassess the lifestyle.

    So where do I fit in? Life is grey. Very dynamic and fluid. The absolutes only work as a means to control the weak minded. I resist the literature on peincipal. I am powerful, and wise enough to call it quits on my own. If I didn’t have this mindset, I could have been converted and realized as an alcoholic by the program. My guess is you’d consider me a “dry drunk”. Again, very cultic.

  20. AA is for complete retards. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I’m 153 days sober, by simply assessing my life situation and where I want to be as I enter middle age.

    No need for any cultic jargon with religious undertones. If I went to AA it would be to exploit stupid women for sex. Used to do it at the bar. Now I can pull it off at AA if I like, but that’s a last resort. Feels so wrong in that place.

    Losers!

      1. of course it won’t kill me! that’s so VERY besides the point, but I have no need to explain it to a know it all like you.

        as for the “retard” comment, there is NO reasoning behind it WHATSOEVER.

        LOL!

      2. OK sorry. I’m sure you’re not a retard. Congratulations on your 153 days sober. Remember, one day at at time. You can do it. Let go let god.

      3. LOL, to make it clear, there have been 153 days this year. You didn’t intuit that one, did ya? I keep a tab open in my browser which states how many days have passed in the year, and click on it from time to time. It’s an easy ego-booster and means to score some brownie points with ladies. They like men who balance risk/reward with a high degree of self-control 😉

        It really was a one time decision, and not a “one day at a time” thing. The ones who are stuck in that mentality are the ones setting themselves up for relapse. Just went through this with a methwhore I knew when she still had a full set of teef (high school). The ridiculous notions she’s spitting out due to this cult are actually what was the last straw and had me split from her for good. Circular reasoning implanting notions which ease the inevitable, and upcoming transition from relapse to “recovery”… erm, a break so they won’t die out yet. It was sickening to hear.

      4. Approaching middle age… just split with a methwhore… 153 days sober… still scheming for chicks… used AA as a pickup spot but found the chicks to be stupid. Well I’m not worried. You’ll learn to overlook that and other character defects. Just remember: lie like the wind.

      5. I’ll just leave it at this, mr holier than everyone else. I have yet to meet an honest man or someone who if they poured their heart out to the wrong individual, wouldn’t be labeled with a character disorder of some sort. Society moulds us this way from a sickened culture which is just part of a multigenerational cycle that’s been repeated all through history. My poo stinks and so does yours. We’re both well aware that meaning is subjective, so if you choose to get off feeling your subjective values are greater than mine, so be it, but it doesn’t affect me in the slightest.

      6. I agree. I have more character disorders than you could shake a stick at. Just ask anyone on here. And it sounds like we both agree that addiction is a religion not a disease. Of course, you’re going back to AA eventually. I can smell the growing desperation. Nothing wrong with that, except that you will be insisting that alcoholism is a disease not a religion. Nothing wrong with that either, just don’t be disappointed when I remind you that you’re not exactly a credentialed scientist. Even when you insist that you understand the neurobiology of addiction and know the perfect protein supplements to counter the cravings. Which you happen to have in stock right now.

  21. AA does not profess to cure alcoholism, there is no cure. They only offer advice on how to manage a life without alcohol. As with any “big” group, there are liars and cheats, but AA has helped countless people into recovery, me for one, and I’m the most skeptical person on the planet. I tried my best to disprove AA’s methods and couldn’t. When I stopped trying to defeat AA, I realized I had been alcohol free longer than anytime since I picked up my first drink over 30 years ago. It is possible to become alcohol free without AA, many have done so. I couldn’t but AA offered me “ideas” that worked for me. As is often said at AA meetings, take what works and leave the rest.
    AA isn’t a brainwashing fellowship. Those that believe AA brainwashes people have been brainwashed themselves by their own fears and from living in constant skepticism. You might try AA for your own mental state. You then could live a productive life without being so pissed all the time.

    1. Recovery (n. masc) – I’m getting too old for the hangovers and meaningless sex, which I always regret afterwards, so now I’ll just insist that I had a disease that made me drink ‘n fuck, and join a club where we all try to convince each other that we have the same disease that almost killed us until we found god and ‘peace and serenity’, which I show off to the girls who are still extorting mommy for beer money, and periodically ‘relapse’ when they reject me anyway.

      Recovery (n. fem) – Buy me a car and pay my rent or I’ll get high and have sex with a creep at AA who promised to show me a way to ‘stay sober’ and I’ll get pregnant and have a baby and YOU’LL have to raise it while I’m out partying.

      1. You sound like u may be a heavy drinker.if you were familiar with the literature, you would be familiar with the distinction.a heavy drinker appears very similar to the alcoholic the only difference is that he may stop or moderate on his own although it may be troublesome or difficult.With sufficient reason ie, loss of spouse, liver damage etc.an alcoholic of the class whom which the program of recovery ( outlined in the first 164 pages of the big book) is paramount to cannot stop on their own.The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.You do however certainly suffer from a big ego with a underlying low self esteem, there is a solution……..

      2. AM, agree with a LOT of what you have to say! but I was neither of these. I assume you’re being hyperbolic.

    2. Gary, I’m sorry but I respectfully disagree. It is a brainwashing cult. I know because I was one of the brainwashed. I could have written your exact post 10 years ago. Somehow, I broke out.

      1. Sorry for the delay in response, I’ve been very busy and unable to even check my email regularly. I understand brainwashing very well and have been very vigilant watching for it and it helps I’m the most skeptical person on the planet, so explain to me how I’ve been brainwashed. Is it just coincidence I couldn’t stop drinking before I met AA and then have been able to sustain sobriety since?

  22. It is amazing how they come out of the woodwork to defend the group; to threaten the group is to threaten their identity.

      1. You are soooo wrong. To threated the group can be a threat to persons sobriety. I lost everything with my drinking .—- My health , my family, my friends, . We aren’t talking hangovers and gee who did I offend, My drinking introduced me to last rights, rapists, thieves, and jails. I broke up my marriage of 27 years and my family and nursing career.. aa saved my life when nothing else could. Sooo I will defend it until I die. That being said, people who have been thru the steps are really the only people that can say if it works or not.. How can you say it works or doesn’t work if you haven’t completed the steps? No program will work if you do not honestly complete the program.

      2. It’s so tiring to see the same circular reasoning being presented by defenders of their religion.

        Yes, religious nuts defend until their deaths. History shows hundreds of millions already have.

        This doesn’t make it right, or logical. It makes it fanatical.

        I think hardcore members truly lack the intellectual faculties to see how deluded they truly are. It’s just not worth the energies to even try :/

        No more posts from me. Retards need to be with other retards. I accept this. Just stay away from me with your circular jargon and series of rationalizations. It burns!

  23. I totally agree. This hateful site and thread are useless. One would think because I was able to stop drinking and rebuild my life, recoup what I have lost, pursue healthier relationships, have a better job, and become more viable and responsible to my community… that’d be enough, regardless of how I got there.

    I read once long ago, “A good Doctor acknowledges another Doctor’s good work. A bad Doctor will become jealous and suffers envy.”

    Pretty clear on which side of the fence AddictionMyth is on. Lotsa luck with that.

    Rather than promoting your program as, say, ‘a healthy alternative for those nothing else has worked for.’ (which might have been true), you instead OPEN your very first pitch with hateful and vitriolic words. Doesn’t sound like much of an ‘alternative’ to me.

    At this point, if you now told me that you had a B.A., I’d not only not believe it, I’d also know you’re a pathological liar, and a mean-spirited one at that.

    Enough from me. I’ve much better things to be doing. May you live in interesting times.

    1. You brainwash people into powerlessness and then exploit them for sex. Or as you call it, ‘pursue healthy relationships’. You demand confession of sins and insecurities with ‘rigorous honesty’ and then blackmail the victim for cash. Or as you call it, ‘a better job’. You convince lonely people that they are powerless to their own cravings and wait for them to die from an overdose. Or as you call it, ‘being responsible to the community.’ Then when these facts are pointed out to you, you run away crying.

      Run pagan, run.

      http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/2012/04/14/free-energy-fracas-adam-trombly-attacks-me-and-thrive-but-is-there-a-silver-lining/
      http://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/RogerKnull
      youtu.be/XLbCE9QYsBU

    1. I am a AA member and i think what you wrote was wrong, and hateful…. i seen this program working in people lives…. there is no cult ….no. one holds you against your will. ….. Thanks Linda

  24. Wow, you guys are angry. Do you really think verbally shit-canning a different program in the most disrespectful and childish way possible will actually get you business?

    -Lotsa luck with that one, fellas.

      1. Hey I like the humor, fat chicks and old beer farts. there is a song in there somewhere. However. In the big book it has several pages dedicated to hidden covert addictions and behaviours by members. Some are not in the rooms for recovery. But for the few who are into recovery. We see the exploitation and it is sad. But we also learn to not work others programs. If you stay around long enough. You see the type you mentioned fall out of the program.

      2. You’re a liar. Post your drunkalog and see for yourself. Of course, you won’t. So here it is: “I drank, I got drunk, I got high, I tried to have sex. And yet I wasn’t satisfied.” Rinse/repeat through middle age. Then discover AA, and a god, and that all you ever really wanted all along was ‘peace and serenity’ (as if you had a better option). And you finally found it in the rooms, along with the prospect of 13th stepping a fat chick, or at least standing in haughty judgment of those who actually succeed, even as you are secretly envious. Fortunately, your god specializes in that character defect.

        You’re an AA pansy. You vouch for the group (“AA saved my life”) just for a pat on the back from the members who actually get some action. And they drink normally when you’re not looking. (And call it a ‘relapse’ if you happen to discover it.)

      3. That phrase, “You’re a liar,” trips off your lips so easily, it makes me wonder. Usually liars, being so enmeshed in the behavior, see oher liars everywhere.
        Glad I don’t have to live in the nasty space between this bloggers ears.
        Just sayin’

      4. No, I don’t.

        The obvious intention you have here is to imply such things go on in A.A. ‘all the time’, correct?

        Hmmm, yes, then I suppose such deplorable behavior goes on in the girl scouts, boy scouts, elementary schools, day-care centers, orphanages, churches, the military, new age cults, colleges, police departments, charities, foundations, corporations, and old folks homes… ‘all the time’.

        To single A.A. out and make it exclusive for such unfortunate acts happening is short sided and ignorant. Either that, or you had a bad experience in A.A., and now the 99.99% good people in the organization has to suffer your opinions.

        So. Which is it?

      5. Yo wanna talk smack, all these lies and so on, and then complain when you suffer from the inevitable backlash?
        Send me your address, I’ll send you a box of tissues, sniveller!!
        Some cheese to go with that whine?

      6. No, that’s not your intent, at all. Your intent, like any other lying child, is to garner attention for yourself.
        If you don’t know that, then you are truly a lost person. To tell whoppers of the magnitude you do here, and not know they are lies, would make you delusional.
        Either way, you are a sad subspecies of humanity.
        If you don’t like it when others come here and tell the truth, then you shouldn’t stand in the stoa and foist your nonsense off on the public as fact. If you do, then the crowd earns the right to comment. And you, having trotted out your inane blather for our consumption, lose the right to complain about the response.
        Here endeth the lesson…

      7. So, having shown yourself the coward who stands in public and lies, then whinges about the response he receives…
        Am I wrong, or is this a public forum?
        Just where do I send your tissues?

      8. The defender of AA claims that alcoholism is a real disease and not a religion, and that alcoholics are not simply retards or shitfaced liars. Does he have the credibility to make such claims? Let’s see: he is a cult/religion fanatic, a moon landing truther, and a self-admitted paid ‘disinformation agent’. All of which are fine, but do you believe a word he says? In a situation where his credibility actually matters? (Let’s hope he doesn’t embarrass himself by denying any of these easily verifiable facts. No, he has already run away like the cowardly pagan that he is.)

        So you say I’m not credible? Fine. That just leaves us where we started: Addiction is a religion not a disease, and there are no credible opinions to the contrary. Well except for the guy who spews insults constantly and demands to know my address so he can ‘send tissues’. And refuses to post his drunkalog because he doesn’t want to ‘live in the past.’ Of course, he is credible.

      9. Far more credible than a drooling rambler like you. Your lies are so terribly obvious to all but you, apparently.
        You start with snottiness and then seem surprised to receive it in return. I don’t have to defend AA against you because your writings are so obviously disingenuous. They are almost self-obviatingly so. Just enjoy watching you thrash around in your own verbal excrement.
        Once again, stop complaining about people pointing out your inconsistencies and lies…you are the one who opened this public forum.
        If you don’t want the negative attention, try some genuine dialogue. Not going to happen, because you don’t seem to be an honest person.

      10. You’ve been obsessed with me for the past 3 months. Which I’m flattered but I don’t want to give you the wrong impression. I like you, but just not in that way. I hope you understand. Maybe it’s time we took a little break from each other.

      11. Are you hinting I am not welcome to comment on your outrageous lies anymore?
        How sad.

      1. Why don’t the two of you “go back” to fellating each other…just for old times sake!!
        Still addicted to all the same old lies is DickMyths’ methodology.
        You are a compost heap in the making.

      2. Oh, poo!!
        As far as fans go, you’ve obviously still got yourself in the #1 position…
        That’s called having an enormous ego!!
        How nice for you!!

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